Post by samthebutcher on Sept 23, 2012 20:09:03 GMT 2
Another thing I wanted to do was clear up my Political position.
I agree with most everything Guest has said. This saves me from having to make the same statements. Especially the way in which you are stereotyping us as some sort of crazy “right wing†abortion clinic, KKK supporting maniacs because we have some “right wing†ideas. It is as bad as your claim that we are condemning all Muslims because of the actions of a few (as you say it is). There are a relative few people that claim to be “right wing†that do horrible things and you want to categorize any one on the right as being like them. To make it worse you were the first to make the accusations toward us that we were stereotyping, (which is false) while all along you are doing exactly that to us with absolutely no grounds to justify your claims. Your accusations are false and to make it worse hypocritical.
One thing I want to make clear to everyone is my political, social, and role of Government beliefs. That way there is no confusion as to my beliefs so that any false distortions and accusations a clearly evident.
As far as my political beliefs I am on the right for sure. To categorize myself in one word I am a Constitutionalists. On a Political Scale test I rate right with Thomas Jefferson. I believe in a small, as minimal as possible to maintain order, Government. I had planned to explain them but then I thought I should just quote Thomas Jefferson, as my beliefs are basically identical to his. No matter if you agree with Thomas Jefferson or not. It is his beliefs and those of the other Founding Fathers that were made into law that America was founding on. They are the blueprint for the type of Government America was intended to be. To put it simply they defined what America is/was and always intended to be. We have obviously drifted so far from what America originally was that it is hardly even the same country anymore. They are the ideas and principle that I wish America would return to.
Just so people don’t say “Oh you mean you want slavery, and abolition of women’s right?†Before anyone says that anything like that. I do not want either of those! If you know much about the founding Fathers yes many of them were slave holders, yet they did not fully agree with it. Slavery was brought to the land that is now America by the British. Slavery was in this land before it was America. Even after America became a nation the Founding Fathers struggled with the idea of slavery. They knew that they could not just release a bunch of slaves and leave them to their own devises. Slavery had been ingrained in the World for 1000’s of years. It wasn’t something they could just remove just as simply as saying it is so. Also they knew a lot of people in America had slaves that they wouldn’t want to lose and it would bring on a Civil War (which it eventually did) and as a brand new nation that had just finished a war they knew it would be the demise of America. So they put their faith in future generations and God that this wrong would be righted. Which slavery was righted, in America at least. Also as you read these quotes from Thomas Jefferson you will see that the concept of slavery and anything but equal rights for all went totally against who he was.
As I starting to look for quotes there were so many good quotes that I couldn’t decide which to use. So here is a link to Thomas Jefferson quotes.
jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/TJ.html
They match my beliefs on Government, Society, Foreign relations etc, so the false accusations and misinterpretation of my feelings and beliefs can cleared up.
On the subjects of Thomas Jefferson and Muslims it was during his time that America had its first dealings with Muslims.
The full story is HERE, www.usvetdsp.com/jan07/jeff_quran.htm shorter version. www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_urbanities-thomas_jefferson.html longer version.
I will give a real short version in case you don’t want to read the full story.
For centuries Muslim Pirates had been terrorizing the African and Mediterranean coastline. During this time in an effort to avoid war many countries would pay ransoms or tributes the Muslims. When America won its independence it no longer had the protection of Britain. American merchant ships were seized by the Muslims and America would pay huge ransoms. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams were sent by congress to try to negotiate with the Muslims. John Adams and Congress at the time thought it would be better and cheaper to keep paying the tribute. Thomas Jefferson was against that and argued that paying ransom would just encourage more piracy and higher ransoms, which is exactly what did happen.
While over there trying to negotiate Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey's ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts. Thomas Jefferson couldn’t understand why the Muslims would be doing this to America when we had never done anything to them..
In a later meeting with the American Congress, the two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."
Eventually Thomas Jefferson became President and put an end to paying ransoms and tributes. Although he was against armies and wars he recognized from the Muslims refusal to stop and their belief it was their duty from God to continue with their murderous actions. He had also read the Koran to know exactly what he was dealing with. He knew that war was the only way to put an end to this terrible situation. He had told Congress which still had some people that thought we should continue to pay the tributes “If we are going to spend millions on ransoms. I would rather spend millions on and army to put a stop to it.†This all lead to the founding of the Marines. The Barbary pirates were defeated and the many century long terror and murderous rein of the Muslim Barbary pirates was ended.
If anyone wants to say it is Americas fault that the Muslim World is mad at us. I think this lesson in history should help you see it is not the cause. It has nothing to do with what America has done it is who we are or actually who we aren’t. We are not Muslim and that is enough for them to want to destroy us. It was the Muslims that started the fight with America.
I agree with most everything Guest has said. This saves me from having to make the same statements. Especially the way in which you are stereotyping us as some sort of crazy “right wing†abortion clinic, KKK supporting maniacs because we have some “right wing†ideas. It is as bad as your claim that we are condemning all Muslims because of the actions of a few (as you say it is). There are a relative few people that claim to be “right wing†that do horrible things and you want to categorize any one on the right as being like them. To make it worse you were the first to make the accusations toward us that we were stereotyping, (which is false) while all along you are doing exactly that to us with absolutely no grounds to justify your claims. Your accusations are false and to make it worse hypocritical.
One thing I want to make clear to everyone is my political, social, and role of Government beliefs. That way there is no confusion as to my beliefs so that any false distortions and accusations a clearly evident.
As far as my political beliefs I am on the right for sure. To categorize myself in one word I am a Constitutionalists. On a Political Scale test I rate right with Thomas Jefferson. I believe in a small, as minimal as possible to maintain order, Government. I had planned to explain them but then I thought I should just quote Thomas Jefferson, as my beliefs are basically identical to his. No matter if you agree with Thomas Jefferson or not. It is his beliefs and those of the other Founding Fathers that were made into law that America was founding on. They are the blueprint for the type of Government America was intended to be. To put it simply they defined what America is/was and always intended to be. We have obviously drifted so far from what America originally was that it is hardly even the same country anymore. They are the ideas and principle that I wish America would return to.
Just so people don’t say “Oh you mean you want slavery, and abolition of women’s right?†Before anyone says that anything like that. I do not want either of those! If you know much about the founding Fathers yes many of them were slave holders, yet they did not fully agree with it. Slavery was brought to the land that is now America by the British. Slavery was in this land before it was America. Even after America became a nation the Founding Fathers struggled with the idea of slavery. They knew that they could not just release a bunch of slaves and leave them to their own devises. Slavery had been ingrained in the World for 1000’s of years. It wasn’t something they could just remove just as simply as saying it is so. Also they knew a lot of people in America had slaves that they wouldn’t want to lose and it would bring on a Civil War (which it eventually did) and as a brand new nation that had just finished a war they knew it would be the demise of America. So they put their faith in future generations and God that this wrong would be righted. Which slavery was righted, in America at least. Also as you read these quotes from Thomas Jefferson you will see that the concept of slavery and anything but equal rights for all went totally against who he was.
As I starting to look for quotes there were so many good quotes that I couldn’t decide which to use. So here is a link to Thomas Jefferson quotes.
jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/TJ.html
They match my beliefs on Government, Society, Foreign relations etc, so the false accusations and misinterpretation of my feelings and beliefs can cleared up.
On the subjects of Thomas Jefferson and Muslims it was during his time that America had its first dealings with Muslims.
The full story is HERE, www.usvetdsp.com/jan07/jeff_quran.htm shorter version. www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_urbanities-thomas_jefferson.html longer version.
I will give a real short version in case you don’t want to read the full story.
For centuries Muslim Pirates had been terrorizing the African and Mediterranean coastline. During this time in an effort to avoid war many countries would pay ransoms or tributes the Muslims. When America won its independence it no longer had the protection of Britain. American merchant ships were seized by the Muslims and America would pay huge ransoms. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams were sent by congress to try to negotiate with the Muslims. John Adams and Congress at the time thought it would be better and cheaper to keep paying the tribute. Thomas Jefferson was against that and argued that paying ransom would just encourage more piracy and higher ransoms, which is exactly what did happen.
While over there trying to negotiate Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey's ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts. Thomas Jefferson couldn’t understand why the Muslims would be doing this to America when we had never done anything to them..
In a later meeting with the American Congress, the two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."
Eventually Thomas Jefferson became President and put an end to paying ransoms and tributes. Although he was against armies and wars he recognized from the Muslims refusal to stop and their belief it was their duty from God to continue with their murderous actions. He had also read the Koran to know exactly what he was dealing with. He knew that war was the only way to put an end to this terrible situation. He had told Congress which still had some people that thought we should continue to pay the tributes “If we are going to spend millions on ransoms. I would rather spend millions on and army to put a stop to it.†This all lead to the founding of the Marines. The Barbary pirates were defeated and the many century long terror and murderous rein of the Muslim Barbary pirates was ended.
If anyone wants to say it is Americas fault that the Muslim World is mad at us. I think this lesson in history should help you see it is not the cause. It has nothing to do with what America has done it is who we are or actually who we aren’t. We are not Muslim and that is enough for them to want to destroy us. It was the Muslims that started the fight with America.
