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Post by vantobia on May 13, 2012 15:18:09 GMT 2
Lol bloody C&C, the beginnings or my clicky clicky pc addiction. Oh how I will love you forever. Anyone else ever create 100 mammoths tanks by letting tiberium grow overnight ?  |
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homer
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Post by homer on May 13, 2012 22:45:17 GMT 2
jesus wouldn't need a jetpack, stupid. Guest gets it. |
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homer
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Post by homer on May 13, 2012 23:10:10 GMT 2
No, you are missing the point. There is no clear guidance for whether or not God exists and how he wants us to live our lives. I could write a holy book called the New New Testament and claim that I'm Jesus' brother made flesh, or that I'm the second coming of Jesus, or that an angel flew into my room and revealed it to me, but you wouldn't believe me, because I have no proof. If Jesus came down and started performing miracles and said "yup, the Bible really does contain God's plan", then there would be some proof that Christianity is real. So I ask again, why do you accept Jesus into your heart instead of following the teachings of Mohammed or the hundreds of other options out there available to you? Why follow any religion at all? Can't you be a kind and compassionate person without accepting religion? If someone came up with a religion with a God even more compassionate and awesome than the Christian God, would you convert to that one? "If Jesus came down and started performing miracles and said "yup, the Bible really does contain God's plan", then there would be some proof that Christianity is real." He already did exactly that, dude, that's why we are even talking about him now to begin with....you just want him to come down every generation, again and again, he doesn't need to prove himself again and again, when he died for sin the first time he sent the holy spirit and all you have to do to receive it is believe. No one is arguing you can't perform kind acts without believing in Christ. It's about whether or not you think you need forgiveness for your sins and whether or not you believe he's the son of God who grants that forgiveness. As for other religions, especially the mainstream ones, none of them preach God is Love (aside from Judaism which would either argue Jesus a liar and false messiah...but also a good person...), and none of them preach the need for forgiveness and salvation outside of ones own efforts to get there. Grace and the love of God is pretty much the key distinguishing factor that separates Christianity from other religions and is why I choose to believe in it. Islam even says Jesus was a messenger of God, and that is of course totally contradictory in their faith, because Jesus was a Holy messenger of God to Islam but somehow also a terrible blasphemous liar who claimed to be the direct Son of God. Can he be both a messenger they should believe as a requirement for the articles of Islam and a liar? Apparently he can be, but that doesn't make sense to me. |
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Post by sormiron on May 13, 2012 23:22:16 GMT 2
If I got it right from my friends that follow islam jesus never said he was the son of god. the koran tells a slight different story of jesus. according to them the bible was corrupted by men over time, while the koran wasn´t.
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homer
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Post by homer on May 13, 2012 23:38:48 GMT 2
First of all Homer, Jesus Christ already died for our sins, you don't need to make my eyeballs suffer too. But to me, logically science has far more failings than the idea of an eternal creator. Don't misunderstand me, I believe in evolution from the stand point that living creatures can adapt to their environments, but not to the level that man has sprouted legs, and birds wings, over what? necessity? or trial and error? You misunderstand how evolution works. Life evolves when random mutations happen to be beneficial. These mutations do not occur in response to a particular need or desire of a lifeform. The vast majority of them suck. Bad mutations inhibit a creature's ability to survive and reproduce, so they are less likely to be passed down to the next generation. Good mutations improve the chance of reproduction by allowing those with the mutation to outcompete those without the mutation for food, territory, mates, etc. So- mutations don't arise to fill a need, but they stick around if they do. It also takes place very gradually. You don't get a complex structure like a wing as the result of a single mutation. What you get is a long series of mutations which eventually result in a functional wing. The initial mutations, of course, won't be useful for flight at all. This is OK, as long as they don't inhibit the creature's ability to reproduce. As the proto-wing continues to mutate, its function continues to change, until eventually you get something that's useful for flying. So, these in-between mutations might simply be stubby little arms getting a little longer to better reach food, or they might be feather-like structures that help a creature regulate its body temperature. Later, you might get something wing-like enough that it helps a creature jump a little bit higher to get to more food. You can read all about how complex structures evolve if you google it. Buddhism predates Christianity by many centuries. A central tenet of Buddhism is that suffering arises from cravings and desires. Why is it possible for Buddhism to be manmade and not Christianity? Or to turn this question on its head, why did God create us with natural selfish desires that drive us to act the complete opposite of how we're supposed to act? I don't need God to stand over my shoulder, I just need a reliable copy of his rules. This is what all your arguments boil down to, unfortunately. God does it this way because it's the right way, and it's the right way because God does it this way. You are unwilling to consider the possibility that God does something in an imperfect fashion because God is an invention of man. I'm not suggesting you reject the Testament for its literary value, I'm suggesting you reject it as the divine plan for the organization of your life and human society. The blue was meant to be easier to read but it failed. "This is what all your arguments boil down to, unfortunately. God does it this way because it's the right way, and it's the right way because God does it this way. You are unwilling to consider the possibility that God does something in an imperfect fashion because God is an invention of man." Yes pretty much, where we can draw the line in the sand, of course I've considered God as either false or imperfect, but concluded on his omnipotence because of personal testimony, of what he's done in my life. "Life evolves when random mutations happen to be beneficial." So, can we say according to this view point on evolution (which many share) that the fact that life exist at all, and even to the level of complexity we see in it today, it is completely random? |
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homer
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Post by homer on May 13, 2012 23:46:41 GMT 2
Homer. the elements that make you you are far older than 10,000 years old, they are only created in supernova explosions. You would be aware of this if you knew basic astronomy, among other things. I don't care whether you are a Christian or a druid who enjoys his Saturdays breaking Nicholas Cage's legs and throwing him into a giant wicker man, you're completely irrelevant to me. My only further purpose in this thread would be to troll and mock you endlessly and I honestly wouldn't find much personal satisfaction in that. Unlike others, I have absolutely no interest in ridding you of your beliefs nor do I care to learn in more detail about them, have a nice life. My final thoughts are that you're 1) obviously too mentally weak to handle life without religion 2) misogynistic 3) a homophobe 4) hysterically ignorant about basic scientific principles 5) hopeless and 6) thank god we're not related. "My final thoughts are that you're 1) obviously too mentally weak to handle life without religion 2) misogynistic 3) a homophobe 4) hysterically ignorant about basic scientific principles 5) hopeless and 6) thank god we're not related. " 1) Yes 2) No 3) No, but it is a sin. 4) Perhaps 5) Without Jesus, yes. 6) So you do believe in God. |
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Post by vantobia on May 14, 2012 2:16:02 GMT 2
6) So you do believe in God.
Oof he got you there !
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marge
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Post by marge on May 14, 2012 2:46:25 GMT 2
He already did exactly that, dude, that's why we are even talking about him now to begin with....you just want him to come down every generation, again and again, he doesn't need to prove himself again and again, when he died for sin the first time he sent the holy spirit and all you have to do to receive it is believe. Great! I'm glad you agree! Impregnating a human woman with your immortal son in the form of a human baby so he can grow up and do magic tricks to convince only those people who actually saw him do the tricks and also those people gullible enough to believe anything they hear of his divinity, and leaving behind no reliable historical record of said magic tricks, and only doing it once so that everyone that died before his birth is shit out of luck and people born a millennia or two later have to rely on second hand witness testimony from completely unreliable people who have also come up with about 5 million OTHER religions which they all swear is the God's honest truth, is a really really awful way to save humanity's collective soul! God is omnipotent. He is responsible for the existence of hell and for allowing untold billions of people to burn for all eternity because they didn't pay fealty to him. Does that sound like "God is love" to you? If by completely random you mean absent intelligent design, then yes, we can say that. By the way, could you expand on why women are completely unfit for positions of leadership over men and why men should always be chosen for leadership positions over women? |
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homer
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Post by homer on May 14, 2012 6:08:37 GMT 2
He already did exactly that, dude, that's why we are even talking about him now to begin with....you just want him to come down every generation, again and again, he doesn't need to prove himself again and again, when he died for sin the first time he sent the holy spirit and all you have to do to receive it is believe. Great! I'm glad you agree! Impregnating a human woman with your immortal son in the form of a human baby so he can grow up and do magic tricks to convince only those people who actually saw him do the tricks and also those people gullible enough to believe anything they hear of his divinity, and leaving behind no reliable historical record of said magic tricks, and only doing it once so that everyone that died before his birth is shit out of luck and people born a millennia or two later have to rely on second hand witness testimony from completely unreliable people who have also come up with about 5 million OTHER religions which they all swear is the God's honest truth, is a really really awful way to save humanity's collective soul! God is omnipotent. He is responsible for the existence of hell and for allowing untold billions of people to burn for all eternity because they didn't pay fealty to him. Does that sound like "God is love" to you? If by completely random you mean absent intelligent design, then yes, we can say that. By the way, could you expand on why women are completely unfit for positions of leadership over men and why men should always be chosen for leadership positions over women? "Great! I'm glad you agree! Impregnating a human woman with your immortal son in the form of a human baby so he can grow up and do magic tricks to convince only those people who actually saw him do the tricks and also those people gullible enough to believe anything they hear of his divinity, and leaving behind no reliable historical record of said magic tricks, and only doing it once so that everyone that died before his birth is shit out of luck and people born a millennia or two later have to rely on second hand witness testimony from completely unreliable people who have also come up with about 5 million OTHER religions which they all swear is the God's honest truth, is a really really awful way to save humanity's collective soul!" Well I'm glad you agree, and that our dialogue could bring you to this point, now all you have to do is accept Jesus as your savior and experience God's love, although you already do experience it in many ways everyday irregardless of your beliefs, as your very existence is a gift from him. "God is omnipotent. He is responsible for the existence of hell and for allowing untold billions of people to burn for all eternity because they didn't pay fealty to him. Does that sound like "God is love" to you?" God is perfect love & justice, and cannot tolerate Sin, hell is separation from God when people never repent and continue to abide in their sin in-spite of hearing the message of his forgiveness in the Gospel. I don't believe he passes that judgement on the souls of men who have never heard the Gospel, but for all those who do and continue to deny its truth, yes they will face judgement. Each of us adults who is exposed to the Gospel is able to make that choice in our allotted life span, and if you deny your very makers existence let alone his free gift of love and mercy, grace & forgiveness, then you have consequently chosen of your own free will to place yourself in an eternity without his presence, you cannot truly know what it is to be completely absent of his presence on Earth because he is a part of all creation and all people. But go all the way to your death denying him, and he will grant you your wish to be absent of him, but know what you've chosen is misery and eternity without his peace, love and joy. What you choose in its stead is your own way; an idea that says "I know how to live my life and I don't need God to tell me any different." a way that says "God not only do I not need you, but you don't exist at all, good riddance." He gave each one of us that choice, because apart from free will, real love cannot exist. But let me stress that his peace and joy and gift of eternal life in Heaven in his presence is free, all we have to do is accept it. It's a pretty awesome gift, and that's the ultimate understatement. "By the way, could you expand on why women are completely unfit for positions of leadership over men and why men should always be chosen for leadership positions over women?" I have some good quote on this, some paragraph if you want to still read it, I'll post it tomorrow, it's well said in my opinion, but it's in a book I don't have with me right at this moment. But in the mean time here is a random thing I found on youtube that I think speaks to my point. 40 famous inspirational speeches, a random compilation, it's kind of a joke, but at the same time, i think there are like 3 women in here, and none of them is particularly moving in an authoritative manner as the men are, would you agree? Please name me some very inspirational authoritative women having given great speeches through out time, or at least recently since women have more or less not had many rights to do so until the last 50 years or so. This would help prove your point to the contrary that women should be just as likely as men naturally to have a place in authority over men as men are to have one over women, at least as far as speaking goes. Lastly I would just like to say thank you to all of you who have debated me and proven to me what a crazed religious nut I am, clearly everything I have said struck no chord in any of you as true or righteous, which is why instead of dismissing me as a lunatic to begin with you have instead actually bothered to write paragraph after paragraph in response to me. After all, you need not concern yourselves with separation from God for eternity since such ideas are fully fiction to begin with, there is beyond a shadow of a doubt no hell, no God, no such thing as sin, and certainly no real merit to the sacrificial message of love and grace through Jesus Christ. But I can say with certainty had it been me an atheist, reading the completely insane idea's of a religious Christian, and I truly put no merit or stock in anything he said, let alone the idiotic fictional fantasy place of punishment for sin - "Hell". I would've in no way shape or form even bothered to waste my time forming a response to something I dismissed outright as false. But thank you for not being like me and bothering to respond. P.S. Jesus loves you unconditionally and died for every last one of your sins. |
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marge
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Post by marge on May 14, 2012 7:06:43 GMT 2
So why exactly does a person who rejects God deserve to burn in hell for eternity? If God is petty enough that he wants to keep them out of Heaven, fair enough, but throwing them into a lake of fire to experience unimaginable pain for the rest of eternity? Really? That's perfect justice? This God of infinite compassion and love couldn't just, you know, let the soul go to sleep, or exist in limbo, or be recycled into a grasshopper? The only reasonable way to deal with unbelievers is to make them burn eternally? If you were God, is this how you would design your system of perfect justice? "My way, or the eternal lake of the worst agony you could possibly experience, forever and ever, so sorry you weren't a little more trusting way!"
I'll watch the video later, but honestly Homer, what does speech making have to do with anything? Even if we assume that women are incapable of making good speeches, why in Jesus' name is that a universally important criteria for leadership positions? Is the ability to deliver inspirational speechification a crucial skill for middle management at Wal-Mart?
Not only am I willing to debate you, I don't even think you deserve to burn in hell eternally for believing in the wrong god!
P.S. Any god is the wrong god
P.P.S. I just watched the video and it's left me SPEECHLESS, but instead of posting a Grimothian facepalm to your compilation of movie actors proving what amazing real life leaders they are by their god-given penis-enhanced voices, I shall counter with an inspirational message from Aretha Franklin:
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Post by switch on May 14, 2012 10:47:04 GMT 2
Why are you bothering, Marge? As I've demonstrated a page back, Homer believes his thoughts generate transcendental reality. He's clearly delusional, his appalling sexism and christian orthodoxy is hardly a drop in the bucket in comparison. Also, you two are not really debating, you're wanking each-other off with sophistry. Vantobia: Anyone else ever create 100 mammoths tanks by letting tiberium grow overnight I used to create armies of soldiers and then suicide them across the tiberium fields. The lucky few who survived would be moved to a holding area until I got bored. This reminds me of other digital massacres I was responsible for, such as in Syndicate where I would persuadeatron the entire population of a map and then plow into them with a car. I did, however, used to run Sim City 2000 overnight so I could afford more arcologies. Oh the frivolity of youth. Lastly I would just like to say thank you to all of you who have debated me and proven to me what a crazed religious nut I am, clearly everything I have said struck no chord in any of you as true or righteous, which is why instead of dismissing me as a lunatic to begin with you have instead actually bothered to write paragraph after paragraph in response to me. After all, you need not concern yourselves with separation from God for eternity since such ideas are fully fiction to begin with, there is beyond a shadow of a doubt no hell, no God, no such thing as sin, and certainly no real merit to the sacrificial message of love and grace through Jesus Christ. But I can say with certainty had it been me an atheist, reading the completely insane idea's of a religious Christian, and I truly put no merit or stock in anything he said, let alone the idiotic fictional fantasy place of punishment for sin - "Hell". I would've in no way shape or form even bothered to waste my time forming a response to something I dismissed outright as false. But thank you for not being like me and bothering to respond. |
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Post by switch on May 14, 2012 15:48:58 GMT 2
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marge
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Post by marge on May 14, 2012 17:07:52 GMT 2
Because he's my husband![/b]
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Post by switch on May 14, 2012 17:20:04 GMT 2
Figures
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Post by vihaan on May 14, 2012 18:17:41 GMT 2
god damnit if someone wants to be an athiest let them if someone wants to be religious let them stop going around preaching and trying to convert everyone to your side
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