Possible 1.8 update feature - increased zoom

[honkey]

He is talkin abou my ping idea and if anything it would clean the game up a bit and allow faster realtime orders from the caPtain.... And by ping I meant only the captain should ping

[tirri]

i am with asmo. i think this would be a horrible change. it would completely change gameplay in ways that are not necessary at all. it would probably change captaining most, but even something trivial like pg 1v1 would be completely changed. really you mostly have to control trow and ctrl click with locks that are all on presets so you really dont have to do very accurate clicking. then why not just zoom back and easily see all flanking ghols or other clever shit the opponent is going to do.

i find it really strange that adren was just talking about how he is sooooo opposed to dumbing down the game and now he really wants to add a feature like this.

KEEP MYTH THE WAY IT IS, STUPIDOS

[amino1]

Definitely add it for replays!

[asmo]

I would say I pretty much covered the negative changes it would make to captaining and Tirri covered everything else.

For replays it would be good.

Also yeah, this would dumb the game down more than any change that has ever been made before.

[adrenaline]

this really would not dumb down the game at all... comparing this to the changes Sam the Butcher was proposing is ludicrous. again, FOG OF WAR would not change at all, and you can already see ghols on the overhead, anyways.

your 1v1 PG argument is flawed, tirri. zooming out would make it much more difficult... you're perception of range for warlocks, morts, etc would be completely fucked. ability to micro would be shot to shit too. again... i highly doubt anyone would play at this zoom level... it would mostly be used for captaining, observing, etc. also, there are a ton of maps that are mostly played on high ground that would greatly benefit from a further zoom.

Personally, I think it should be added to a beta version of 1.8 and tested out before anyone jumps to conclusions.

[asmo]

I highly disagree with you Adren, you are telling me every time you or every other player notices that 1 red ghoul dot on the mini map?

Also the things in the PG example you said might be true AT FIRST, give it time and people would find out the right warlock/mort range and also with practice micro would be = to what it is now. There is plenty of games out there that are more zoomed out and people have the capability to micro just fine.

[adrenaline]

there is no way, with any amount of practice, that you have have the same amount of control over individual units. mouse precision alone would limit that. not possible, sorry.

and highly disagree all you want about the ghols, but it won't matter, because nobody in their right mind will be playing at this zoom level all the time, anyways. It just isn't practical.

[tirri]

Aug 31, 2012 22:09:29 GMT 2 adrenaline said:

this really would not dumb down the game at all... comparing this to the changes Sam the Butcher was proposing is ludicrous. again, FOG OF WAR would not change at all, and you can already see ghols on the overhead, anyways.

your 1v1 PG argument is flawed, tirri. zooming out would make it much more difficult... you're perception of range for warlocks, morts, etc would be completely fucked. ability to micro would be shot to shit too. again... i highly doubt anyone would play at this zoom level... it would mostly be used for captaining, observing, etc. also, there are a ton of maps that are mostly played on high ground that would greatly benefit from a further zoom.

Personally, I think it should be added to a beta version of 1.8 and tested out before anyone jumps to conclusions.

you really blow my mind. are you seriously saying that seeing all the units right there on the screen instead of tiny little red dots on the minimap that even the best players ignore for big parts of the hectic games isnt dumbing down the game?

no, no one would probably play at the zoom level that is shown in that picture. but people would play at 1.5x or something like that and that would completely change myth. think of pg koth ffa. i guarantee most people would find it easier to play a little more zoomed out.

this change would be by far the biggest change ever done to myth and i would rather DIE than let it happen

[punkuser]

Before we go too far down the name-calling rabbit hole, I would hope that the real core of the disagreement here is clear, but let me spell it out.

Do you think panning/watching minimap, etc. is an interesting part of the "skill" of Myth 2 or not?

The fact that adding more zoom would reduce the need to pan around is the entire point, but is that really something fundamental to how Myth plays, or is it just a UI quirk? A corollary to this argument is that if it truly is a useful skill, then *decreasing* the maximum zoom level would make the game "more skill-based". I don't think anyone would find that desirable.

Thus it really is an argument about whether or not you value/want to protect the investment you have made in learning to pan around and watch the minimap. It is clearly something that you learn while becoming a good player/captain, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the game would be diminished by focusing the "skills" on other things than using the UI.

It is indisputable that it would change the game hence why I said this would require a lot of input from the competitive folks if it is even to be considered. The question is whether it would change it for the better or worse, and I imagine there is a lot of disagreement on that based on the above core argument.

(FWIW I have no strong opinion on this either way, I'm just trying to focus the discussion in a useful direction.)

[adrenaline]

Aug 31, 2012 22:27:35 GMT 2 tirri said:

no, no one would probably play at the zoom level that is shown in that picture. but people would play at 1.5x or something like that and that would completely change myth. think of pg koth ffa. i guarantee most people would find it easier to play a little more zoomed out.

everyone would have the option, so it's not like it would be giving anyone a distinct advantage. and it would be great in many situations, i.e. getting doubled on Float CTF or something... you'd be better able to manage fighting a team in front, while also fighting a team behind you. I'm still seeing far more positives than negatives here... and apparently so are the majority of the voters.

At least beta test it before killing yourself.

And punkUser... any way to have this as an option ONLY for team captains? Would it be possible to distinguish between team captains and solo players?

[asmo]

Aug 31, 2012 22:27:35 GMT 2 tirri said:

this change would be by far the biggest change ever done to myth and i would rather DIE than let it happen

[headhunter]

added zoom + blind
sounds great to me.

[tirri]

Aug 31, 2012 22:41:02 GMT 2 adrenaline said:

everyone would have the option, so it's not like it would be giving anyone a distinct advantage. and it would be great in many situations, i.e. getting doubled on Float CTF or something... you'd be better able to manage fighting a team in front, while also fighting a team behind you. I'm still seeing far more positives than negatives here... and apparently so are the majority of the voters.

HOW IS THIS NOT DUMBING DOWN THE GAME??? IM GETTING READY TO SLIT WRISTS ALRDY

[headhunter]

Why are you guys getting so worked up about something that should have been implemented years ago. Sam the Butchers idea was worthy of controversy.
This is common sense.
Chill.

[asmo]

Aug 31, 2012 22:27:44 GMT 2 punkuser said:

It is indisputable that it would change the game

You think people have been playing this game for 12+ years because they want drastic change?

Also I can't quote anyone on this but i'm pretty sure project magma has stated that in all their patches they will NOT touch the gameplay.

"it would change the game" is pretty much saying it would change the gameplay... btw this is not a shot at you as you already stated that you aren't for or against it.