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Post by guest on Aug 14, 2012 2:12:12 GMT 2
East Wind - What does Mars being a waste of cash have to do with Iraq+Afghanistan? Do you mean someone can only complain out of control spending with regards to one line item? - Cu Seinfeld Cutting down NASA's budget would be like treating an ingrown toenail of a patient who is bleeding to death. That would imply that treating the ingrown toenail would have no effect on helping the patient who is bleeding to death. NASA is a frivolous expense, and cutting NASA, the DOE, the EPA, etc. would go to show that we are serious about treating our self-inflicted wounds. Paul Ryan has an excellent budgetary plan for the United States of America. It is proven that private enterprise works. Look at Europe to see what happens when you constrain private enterprise. |
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monty
Triple thrall
Posts: 36
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Post by monty on Aug 14, 2012 7:41:04 GMT 2
why not close loopholes in the tax laws or reduce the number of subsidies to companies that profit multiple billions of dollars every year. you don't want to protect the future or help out people who literally can't put food on the table or clothes on their back today but are ok with the government assisting exon mobile who's profits were $41 billion in 2011. their worst year in the past decade they *only* made 20 billion.
this is total to all fossil fuel related companies, but can you truly argue that without these billions of dollars in government aid these companies would fail? or even struggle to continually be some of the most profitable businesses? there is no true energy competition in america yet. so they might only make a $20 billion profit a year instead of double that - why is that the governments problem? to me this is a "frivolous expense"
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Post by guest on Aug 14, 2012 8:13:20 GMT 2
why not close loopholes in the tax laws or reduce the number of subsidies to companies that profit multiple billions of dollars every year. you don't want to protect the future or help out people who literally can't put food on the table or clothes on their back today but are ok with the government assisting exon mobile who's profits were $41 billion in 2011. their worst year in the past decade they *only* made 20 billion. this is total to all fossil fuel related companies, but can you truly argue that without these billions of dollars in government aid these companies would fail? or even struggle to continually be some of the most profitable businesses? there is no true energy competition in america yet. so they might only make a $20 billion profit a year instead of double that - why is that the governments problem? to me this is a "frivolous expense" This is aiding private investment. Therefore it is good. It is not my money. It is a private company's right who is acting in their legal and American right to dodge taxes. I am pro-Space X. Anti-NASA. - Cu Seinfeld. |
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 14, 2012 14:59:51 GMT 2
why not close loopholes in the tax laws or reduce the number of subsidies to companies that profit multiple billions of dollars every year. you don't want to protect the future or help out people who literally can't put food on the table or clothes on their back today but are ok with the government assisting exon mobile who's profits were $41 billion in 2011. their worst year in the past decade they *only* made 20 billion. this is total to all fossil fuel related companies, but can you truly argue that without these billions of dollars in government aid these companies would fail? or even struggle to continually be some of the most profitable businesses? there is no true energy competition in america yet. so they might only make a $20 billion profit a year instead of double that - why is that the governments problem? to me this is a "frivolous expense" I dont like getting involved in talking politics with liberals, but I hate even more seeing lies get spread. The U.S Government DOES NOT give subsidies to oil companies. That is an out right lie.I dont understand how ANYONE can believe ANYTHING that comes out of Obamas or any Liberals mouth. What they are calling subsidies are the STANDARD tax deductions that ALL business' have for expenses. The Government does not give Oil Companies any money at all. That is just another lie that the useful idiots eat up. It is typical Socialist, Liberal belief that all money is the Governments and that any they let you keep is the same as if they gave it to you. Here is a link. www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_prez_oil_tax_break_lies_Y2Yj6KCU9QIO0BKHs1Be7MIf you liberals would bother to fact check you can find the truth about this all over the place. But you dont want to because it just feeds you jealousy of people with more than you have, so you want to demonize them. Another fact for you. The Government makes more money off of gas and oil than the Oil Companies do. How is that for fair? How many of you would want to own a business take all the work and risk that goes with it. Only to turn around and pay more in Taxes than you even make? It is sickening and it is Theft. Then on top of it Obama has the nerve to say that the Government is GIVING money to Oil Companies. That is totally outrageous. www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2012/03/16/taxes-and-gas-prices/The only Oil Company we give money to is Petrobras. A Brazilian Oil Company we loan 2 BILLION DOLLARS. So that they could drill deeper and more dangerous wells around the same places that Obama kicked our Oil Companies out of. Then he told them we would be their best customers. Now THAT IS 'Crusiered' up. online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html |
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Post by eastwind on Aug 14, 2012 17:18:29 GMT 2
aite peace
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Post by honkey on Aug 14, 2012 19:39:32 GMT 2
Monty isn't a liberal. He is just pointing out the conservative motto of *cruiser* helping our own people but it's ok to go blow the world up. I for one would rather have my money go to feeding a kid ( even if his parents do drugs) than getting Halliburton and Lockheed Martin wealthier. You have also failed to acknowledge the smack down I gave you over social security and Medicare being the main source of your "entitlement" expenses... Yet they are government mandated programs. The reason those programs are in such dire straights is because both sides of the aisle have been responsible for mortgaging
The future over and over again. Fact of the reality is just because you think Obama sucks ( which he does) does not mean shit Romney is a good choice. That is like choosing between getting kicked in the left shin or the right shin... It sucks either way.
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Post by honkey on Aug 14, 2012 19:40:49 GMT 2
Also love how you chose news sources that are controlled by the biggest corporations in the world. Real credible news sources there lol you stupid ass.
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sasper
A better forum warrior
Posts: 112
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Post by sasper on Aug 14, 2012 20:39:14 GMT 2
honkey your tin foil hat is on too tight
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Post by honkey on Aug 14, 2012 23:51:04 GMT 2
Ge owns NBC.... NBC doesn't report ges bad stuff...media is not allowed to show bodies of dead for all the wars we start or even images of our own soldiers caskets.... Your blinders are on too much buddy...
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amino1
A better forum warrior
Posts: 117
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Post by amino1 on Aug 15, 2012 0:15:17 GMT 2
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monty
Triple thrall
Posts: 36
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Post by monty on Aug 15, 2012 2:01:27 GMT 2
The U.S Government DOES NOT give subsidies to oil companies. That is an out right lie. saying it bigger (or louder) doesn't make it any more true I dont understand how ANYONE can believe ANYTHING that comes out of Obamas or any Liberals mouth. What they are calling subsidies are the STANDARD tax deductions that ALL business' have for expenses. The Government does not give Oil Companies any money at all. i don't understand how you can believe anything that comes out of any politicians mouth, obama or otherwise. every last one of them is a liar and not one of them actually have your interests in mind. they are just really good at tricking you into thinking that they do, and then if they think you are realizing that, distracting you by saying "hey look at those idiots over there who don't agree with me..i mean us!" aside from that, where did i say 'obama says this, therefor it's what i think'? just because you are a puppet to a political party doesn't mean all others are too. but if i forgot and you can show me where i said something like that please do. while you are at it, tell me why if the government doesn't give them any monetary benefits, how is it possible they have been trying to pass bills to reduce the amount of money they allegedly aren't giving these companies to begin with? seems silly they are writing bills trying to reduce or eliminate these benefits you are saying don't exist in the first place That is just another lie that the useful idiots eat up. It is typical Socialist, Liberal belief that all money is the Governments and that any they let you keep is the same as if they gave it to you. idiots?? i assume you meant useless. and i don't think that the government should keep all the money (i am interested in how you think there is a difference between them not taking money and them giving you money if in the end it comes out the same amount). what i am saying is they should be more just when they tax people and companies. these corporations (and rich fuckers) can write off all kinds of ridiculous things to pay less taxes. why can't i write off similarly ridiculous things to not pay as much in taxes? or really my point is why can't these companies, who are doing *cruisering* amazing financially, pay in their full share in taxes? then if our taxation actually impacts their ability to turn a profit we can revisit these tax breaks. i'd also like to point out that it was "socialist" policy that got america out of the great depression in the 40s If you liberals would bother to fact check you can find the truth about this all over the place. But you dont want to because it just feeds you jealousy of people with more than you have, so you want to demonize them. what "facts" did you use to come up with the idea that i am one of those "liberals"? i think you need to investigate the sources of your facts before you start throwing them around as such and how the hell am i jealous of anyone? i have a well paying job, i own my car, i am thousands of dollars away from being even close to "in debt". i am 27 and have lived 100% independent of anyone else since i was 18 - i moved back in with my mom when i was 22 for 6 months because SHE needed help paying her mortgage when her and my dad got divorced. when i was laid off at the end of 2008 i didn't collect unemployment, i lived off my savings for 4 months (and got drunk and stoned most every day) until i got bored and decided to go back to work. i had the opportunity to do that because i worked hard prior to that, not because i relied on others to take care of me. i don't want/need more for me personally, i have enough right now. what i do want is more for humanity as a whole. which i feel placing a higher priority on science, education, and the future well being of people and the environment is a bigger step in that direction than securing a few extra billion dollars profit for money hoarders. what troubles me is why do you 1. care so much about what others are giving/taking from the government. sounds like you are more jealous that you yourself can't take advantage of the system the way some people do which as a result hurts those who really do need the assistance, and 2. why do you want to continue to give more to others who are already very well off. how would increasing the amount of taxes on companies that make billions of dollars a year in pure profits negatively impact your day-to-day life? and how shitty would your life be today without government investments in things like space exploration? i don't get this whole "they are at the top so we should help keep them there" mentality conservatives seem to have Another fact for you. The Government makes more money off of gas and oil than the Oil Companies do. How is that for fair? How many of you would want to own a business take all the work and risk that goes with it. Only to turn around and pay more in Taxes than you even make? It is sickening and it is Theft. Then on top of it Obama has the nerve to say that the Government is GIVING money to Oil Companies. That is totally outrageous. gotta love fox. this article points out to me that the USA taxes at lower rates than the rest of the world: they paid america 12b in income taxes, but a far larger sum of 18b to other countries - how can you make our government out to be the bad guys when we tax our own companies at lower rates than the rest of the world? it also gives no figures on how much money exxon invested in itself through r&d, employee salaries, executive bonuses, expansion etc. and no overall earning figures to even give you a clue as to how much money traveled through their hands through the course of a year. it's written to lead you into thinking in a very specific way, but not really in the best way The only Oil Company we give money to is Petrobras. A Brazilian Oil Company we loan 2 BILLION DOLLARS. So that they could drill deeper and more dangerous wells around the same places that Obama kicked our Oil Companies out of. Then he told them we would be their best customers. Now THAT IS 'Crusiered' up. haha this isn't "giving money away", this is whats called an investment. we gave them $2b in hopes that in the future they would provide us with an overall savings, over a period of time, greater than the initial $2b. its similar to when you go to the bank and get a loan, and then over a period of time you pay them back with interest, resulting in a profit for the bank, except this investment would trickle down to all americans through lower energy costs. there's no guarantee in either situation it will work, but you can't say they are "giving it away" |
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monty
Triple thrall
Posts: 36
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Post by monty on Aug 15, 2012 2:02:49 GMT 2
how is government money in any way "private money". sad that samthebutcher is making more valid arguments than you
also without nasa paving the way, space-x would not exist. developing tech to do things like go into space is a long term investment unless you have the resources and financial backing of something like an entire country. no one could afford to actually start from a blank slate and get to where space-x is now, especially in the time frame they have done it in
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monty
Triple thrall
Posts: 36
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Post by monty on Aug 15, 2012 2:03:26 GMT 2
Monty isn't a liberal. He is just pointing out the conservative motto of *cruiser* helping our own people but it's ok to go blow the world up. blahblahblah honkey gets it |
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Post by honkey on Aug 15, 2012 6:54:31 GMT 2
its ok monty... when I pointed out to samthebutcher that the main cause of the huge entitlement deficit is due to social security and medicare (programs both sides have supported for 50 years) he ignored it and started quoting fox news. I almost dont blame the elitests for wanting to ship the idiots to fema camps, its like hunting, except easier since the prey comes right to you and all you gotta do is make it hate the other prey as opposed to hating the hunter.
Basically the media does 2 things:
Conservative: increases your racism, if obama was white, "conservatives" wouldnt have half the hate.
Liberal: play on the fact that conservatives are racist. If obama wasnt black... half the liberals would jump off the cause.
Congratulations Machiavelli.... you wrote a manual in the 1500's of how to control peoples minds, and make them feel fear in the internet age. Machiavelli for president!!!!!
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Post by guest on Aug 15, 2012 18:54:54 GMT 2
how is government money in any way "private money". sad that samthebutcher is making more valid arguments than you also without nasa paving the way, space-x would not exist. developing tech to do things like go into space is a long term investment unless you have the resources and financial backing of something like an entire country. no one could afford to actually start from a blank slate and get to where space-x is now, especially in the time frame they have done it in Do you know what a loophole and a tax credit are? If you do, and you recognize their legality, then how is it government money? It is only government money if it is given to the government. As for subsidies - if they are given to a company as a form of investment, like Solyndra, then yes it is a bad thing. That would be on my list to ax. If it is given to a company as the result of fulfilling a contract then it is an acceptable expense. It would also be private money, as it would be their money as a result of performing their contract. If they do not perform the contract, they do not get the money. As for your Space X argument - outmoded Cold War era thinking. Private investment can do it cheaper without having to deal with the encumbrances of government bloat. No less a source than John Carmack, whose Armadillo Aerospace project is doing quite well without government help agrees with me. - Cu Seinfeld |
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