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Post by guest on Sept 1, 2012 17:23:47 GMT 2
With fog of war on its going to look stupid as shit watching the map from the vantage point of a predator drone and suddenly units are phasing into and out of existence like field of dreams.
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Post by headhunter on Sept 1, 2012 17:52:49 GMT 2
there is no overhead map in war.
radar doesn't count.
grow up.
turn map off.
zoom out further.
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Post by punkuser on Sept 1, 2012 18:13:12 GMT 2
switch and punkuser, no one has said that the current zoom level makes the game better or worse. the point is that it would completely change the game and that is what we are against. Right, I agree with. It's a big change... who knows whether it would be better or worse. I don't think there's any real evidence that where it is is "perfect" in terms of theoretical game design (since no other options have been tested), but we all do like the game how it is and this very well could be a part of it. Thus we should err on the side of being conservative unless *everyone* wanted it or something. I do think there are benefits to both ways, but I'd rather just not see that drastic of a change made with the gameplay. make it for replays only, that would be cool. Yeah good summary. Could be cool, could suck... better not to take the risk. 2x as many mwc forum audience vote to put zoom in game, loudmouth minority shouldn't be allowed to prevent progress of myth. Here's the thing... despite what you may have heard on these boards (and hopefully certain people are paying attention), the patches are actually incredibly conservative on any gameplay changes. For anything that clearly affects the gameplay in a large way like this there would have to be almost unanimity among the community for it to be even considered. That is not the case here, so we stick to the status quo. Seems like as expected everyone is fine with this for replays. What about observers? Presumably fine too? Preferred max zoom levels? |
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Post by giantkillergeneral on Sept 1, 2012 18:28:50 GMT 2
yea obviously observers who have joined the host with "server is observer" option enabled are unable to play so I don't see why they couldn't use it. would be nice if observers could talk amongst themselves as well (not sure if this was fixed yet) and maybe even an option to prevent observers from talking to the actual players in the game since that could get abused.
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Post by adrenaline on Sept 1, 2012 18:42:01 GMT 2
yayyyy i have created an uproar!
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Post by punkuser on Sept 1, 2012 18:43:24 GMT 2
yea obviously observers who have joined the host with "server is observer" option enabled are unable to play so I don't see why they couldn't use it. would be nice if observers could talk amongst themselves as well (not sure if this was fixed yet) and maybe even an option to prevent observers from talking to the actual players in the game since that could get abused. I think observers can talk amongst themselves - the only wrinkle right now is if there are any observer they have to be on the host's team. I plan to look at decoupling that from hosting. But yeah, I think they can currently speak to everyone... this could be prevented but these days with VOIP and ubiquitous out-of-game chat methods, there's no perfect solution. Along these lines though, one thing I've done about half the work to support is "live" spectating of games in progress (potentially with some enforced delay to prevent ghosting, etc) by an unlimited number of players through the metaserver. These spectators wouldn't so much be "in the game" as be viewing a streamed replay (as it is recorded) effectively, so they can even do stuff like pause it, fast forward (if they started it late), etc. It's basically like watching a film, but it's of a live game. That seems pretty awesome to me for tournaments and enables live shoutcasting as well, so it's something I've been working on implementing. The implementation is also related to a number of other useful tourney features. |
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Post by giantkillergeneral on Sept 1, 2012 18:51:14 GMT 2
decoupling observers from hosting is a good idea
the live spectating thing could be a good idea as well. how to stop abuse though of observers telling teams trades, strats, etc. as it is going live? have a 5 minute delay?
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Post by honkey on Sept 1, 2012 18:55:06 GMT 2
Let's add everything from lol except the king feature.... Someone mentioned u guys have tried it is this true ? By ping I mean map pinging
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Post by myrk on Sept 1, 2012 19:40:30 GMT 2
If you insist... here's a couple... - ... the game was patched to be made easier to play - My point was that microing your melee matters a lot less now and the fact that magma changed the melee AI made this game take less skill to play, and therefore it was a shitty change. - As much as people like to say I'm fat on internet forums, in reality I'm in shape and my main hobby is training in jiu-jitsu. /troll First point: go hit caps lock and notice how much easier it is to see which units are friendlies. The game is easier just because of this alone. gg Second point: Melee took more skill when you didn't have shift double click as a crutch. That's just fact. Third point: denying that I do jiu-jitsu in real life? lol, that's rich. |
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Post by augustkamppur on Sept 1, 2012 20:04:59 GMT 2
Voted: yes
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sasper
A better forum warrior
Posts: 112
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Post by sasper on Sept 1, 2012 20:18:07 GMT 2
voted in favour.
why can't this be made an in game option for the host?
that way people who would like this game to move into the 21st century (and possibly retain newcomers) could switch it on.
and the purists/luddites who yearn for the days of trying to click 25 times a seconds to micro their melee can have it their way as well.
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Post by Aki on Sept 1, 2012 20:26:51 GMT 2
needed to point this out It's awesome as long as the FOG OF WAR STILL APPLIES I propose that we (the players) no longer update Myth. Magma can do w/e they want. Clearly and justifiably they mod to please themselves. They just aren't capable of doing the few things we'd like changed anyway.
Unless they can give us a standalone release that doesn't screw with gameplay, I'm tired of accepting their shitty changes just to get a slightly lower ping, the unnecessary option for 300 fps, gimmicks, or used-only-in-coop bullshit. I want as many options as possible. I still think this would enable a higher level of captaining by helping get rid of retard-level mistakes that don't require "skill" to take advantage of anyway. A good player isn't blindsided enough for this to matter, and a bad player's going to get his ass kicked regardless of whether you can side-dong him or not. |
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Post by headhunter on Sept 1, 2012 21:03:07 GMT 2
in wwo's defense, the ability to zoom further is a lot different than the new form of attack StB was proposin, and also one the majority of Mythers have been interested in since v1.3. (As stated earlier, the current "bird's eye view" is far from that.)
I was a fan of StB's idea because I thought it was intriuging, yet I completely understood the oppositions reasoning.
I really don't understand the opposition to this proposed update.
Really? Are you that concerned with adjusting where you click the mouse to target? Are your eyes so bad that you can't adjust? I bet it takes you about 3 games...
Make it a host option so the 9 people who don't want to play it don't have to.
I'm guessing once they get used to it they will be wondering why they were ever opposed.
Honkey - the ping on the map, now that you reminded me what it meant. I am all for it.
Clicking on map to inform teammates of anything is a good idea. Same possibility teammates won't notice it as much as they already don't notice it. Would only improve game play.
Also... Myth II is difficult enough as it is for new players to integrate themselves into both the game and the community. Vets will always be vets and if the competition escalates, so will we. Does that frighten some of you? "Dumbing down the game" as has been argued, is potentially the best chance we, as a community, have to maintain our ability to even play the game in the first place.
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Post by asmo on Sept 1, 2012 21:21:27 GMT 2
I really don't understand the opposition to this proposed update. If you don't understand the opposition you need to go click back to page 1 and reread all the post. Take off your Blinders! As stated before by those opposed to it we are not saying that it would make the game better or worse. We are saying it would CHANGE THE GAME drastically. The good players aren't really worried about noobs catching up to us, in fact I think almost all of us would love that. We just don't want the GAMEPLAY CHANGED I don't know how many times we have to state this before the people that want the extra zoom out understand our side of the argument and stop bringing up stuff irrelevant to why we are opposed to it. |
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Post by punkuser on Sept 1, 2012 21:28:35 GMT 2
the live spectating thing could be a good idea as well. how to stop abuse though of observers telling teams trades, strats, etc. as it is going live? have a 5 minute delay? Yeah we could have whatever delay we want really. Something around 5 minutes is probably reasonable for Myth I think. Although of course with relatively short games you could also argue that might as well wait another 5 and go download the replay. Let's add everything from lol except the king feature.... Someone mentioned u guys have tried it is this true ? By ping I mean map pinging It was being looked at by one of the devs at one point but I'm not sure what happened or if it is still pending. I seem to recall there were a bunch of tech issues that made it not trivial to implement, but I don't recall the details. Certainly agreed it would be very useful. Now of course you could argue that map-pinging would decrease tunnel-vision skillz too since now anyone can easily inform anyone else of flanking ghol, etc. Heh...  |
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