Possible 1.8 update feature - increased zoom

[punkuser]

Sept 1, 2012 6:01:19 GMT 2 myrk said:

Why don't you quote one of these lies I'm perpetuating.

If you insist... here's a couple...

myrk said:

- ... the game was patched to be made easier to play
- My point was that microing your melee matters a lot less now and the fact that magma changed the melee AI made this game take less skill to play, and therefore it was a shitty change.
- As much as people like to say I'm fat on internet forums, in reality I'm in shape and my main hobby is training in jiu-jitsu. /troll

Sept 1, 2012 6:01:19 GMT 2 myrk" said:

You can't possibly be this stupid

No myrk, I just put it on for your sake.

[punkuser]

Alright as promised, here's some different zoom levels (give them a couple minutes to upload on my crap connection):

1x
2x
4x
6x

What level do you think would be good for extended zoom in films if we do decide to add that? Personally I'm thinking 4x strikes a nice balance.

[tsohg]

2 THUMBS UP!! 4 extra zOOmage. :o)

[asmo]

yeah, actually seeing the picture of how it would be...that would definitely kill myth 2. It wouldn't even be the same game.

[switch]

I'm feeling that 6x for strategic replay analysis.

Asmo, between like 1x and 2x there's limited significant difference. At 4x you get a little more perspective on your neighbours. I would imagine spending game-time (in our fantasy myth online version that will not exist) around 2x to 3x.

But that 6x is, I think, essential for screengrabs, game reviews, strategic analysis, etc

[tirri]

Aug 31, 2012 22:51:13 GMT 2 adrenaline said:

well, if you can see more than your opponent then yes, that = dumbing down the game
if you can both see equal, neither having the advantage = not dumbing down the game
if your opponent can see more of the map = harder to sneak up on = harder to kill = opposite of dumbing down the game

i know this discussion is mostly over but i have to point this out. i love how you use reasoning like this when its about a change you would like, like zooming out and helping your horrible tunnelvision. but all you said would have been perfectly applicable in sam's thread too but you were going on for pages about it dumbing down the game.

anf for me it goes like this: easiear not to get sneaked up on = dumbing down the game

yes, as others have pointed out, its not exactly dumbing down the game as other skills will have to take over and you might have to outconrol your enemy even more to kill him or something like that. but for me not having tunnelvision and not getting sneaked up on and completely blown up to pieces in mere seconds is the funniest and hardest part of the game. i have no doubt that most newbs and tunnelvisionists would prefer to have that part of the game changed to something else. BUT I DONT, ID RATHER DIE DIE DIE


and as for the thing that people wouldnt use this feature much so they wouldnt lose controlling ability: there is a reason why everyone plays zoomed out to the max. no one plays at 0.5x zoom to get more control, because getting rid of tunnelvision is more important than losing that little extra bit of control. now if there was an option to zoom not from 0-1 like now, but from 0 to 1.5, theres no doubt that everyone would eventually use the 1.5 option and yes, myth would be a completely different game.

[switch]

If anything this entire thread was a metaphorical discourse on limitations and the brave few willing to topple the status quo in pursuit of the dream of "what great heights we'll hit"

The hardcore argument is of course well received here, and no doubt, these changes (to online play) would mean all kinds of anti-hardcore displays of unmanliness.

And, like all good real men allies, progress is the agent of our demise.
In the great tradition of our hard as nails ancestors we cannot allow a 14 yearold game based on quick clicking to be "dumbed down"


But anyway none of that has anything to do with REPLAY FUNCTIONS which I think is totally uncontroversial, and would clearly benefit from the changes.

[adrenaline]

2x looks great, imo. Clash is one of the maps that would really benefit from a higher camera because the entire game is played on a high hill... feels like u are zoomed in half way anyways.

someone mentioned something about a host-enabled function... like vTFL or anti-clump etc... good idea.

for strategizing purposes... it would be lovely to be able to get a screen-grab of a full map instead of up-scaling a shot of the overhead.

i think this is a no-brainer for replays, at least. would certainly make shoutcasting and match reviews easier and more interesting.

and again, for the people that think this would make it easier to play:

if it's easier for you, AND easier for your opponent... is it actually easier for anyone? does 1-1 NOT = 0?

BETA TEST IT before getting your panties all twisted up your gaping vaginas. I still see more benefits than drawbacks.

[waywardone]

I guess I underestimated how stupid people can be. I had no idea you could still catch people unaware with a ghol or whatnot. Is there a recent film of a good player getting screwed because of this? CareMode On would be preferable as well.

I still think this would enable a higher level of captaining by helping get rid of retard-level mistakes that don't require "skill" to take advantage of anyway. A good player isn't blindsided enough for this to matter, and a bad player's going to get his ass kicked regardless of whether you can side-dong him or not.

[asmo]

Sept 1, 2012 7:35:39 GMT 2 tirri said:

if your opponent can see more of the map = harder to sneak up on = harder to kill = opposite of dumbing down the game

i know this discussion is mostly over but i have to point this out. i love how you use reasoning like this when its about a change you would like, like zooming out and helping your horrible tunnelvision. but all you said would have been perfectly applicable in sam's thread too but you were going on for pages about it dumbing down the game.

anf for me it goes like this: easiear not to get sneaked up on = dumbing down the game

yes, as others have pointed out, its not exactly dumbing down the game as other skills will have to take over and you might have to outconrol your enemy even more to kill him or something like that. but for me not having tunnelvision and not getting sneaked up on and completely blown up to pieces in mere seconds is the funniest and hardest part of the game. i have no doubt that most newbs and tunnelvisionists would prefer to have that part of the game changed to something else. BUT I DONT, ID RATHER DIE DIE DIE


and as for the thing that people wouldnt use this feature much so they wouldnt lose controlling ability: there is a reason why everyone plays zoomed out to the max. no one plays at 0.5x zoom to get more control, because getting rid of tunnelvision is more important than losing that little extra bit of control. now if there was an option to zoom not from 0-1 like now, but from 0 to 1.5, theres no doubt that everyone would eventually use the 1.5 option and yes, myth would be a completely different game.

[switch]

I do find this line of thinking extremely fascinating, because it suggests that the current arbitrary zoom function cap is essential to the enjoyment of competitive myth.

[asmo]

Sept 1, 2012 8:24:04 GMT 2 waywardone said:

I guess I underestimated how stupid people can be. I had no idea you could still catch people unaware with a ghol or whatnot. Is there a recent film of a good player getting screwed because of this? CareMode On would be preferable as well.

Watch game 2 of shuffle Team Karma vs Team Ratking. Watch yourself(Wwo) and Karma at 5:20 to 3:30 as you two get pinched and raped. This is an example of things that would be prevented almost every time with extra zoom.

btw that only took me literally 2 minutes to find of watching films specifically of you. I guarantee there was similar things like this happening throughout the whole game to the other players.


THAT'S BLIND SIDED YO!

[punkuser]

Yeah I do find the extreme viewpoints somewhat fascinating on both sides because they imply silly things like - for instance - capping the zoom distance at half its current value would make Myth even better by increasing further the utility of anti-tunnel-vision-mad-camera skills. Both extremes in this discussion really just demonstrate a lack of understand of the issue (or game design in general).

Regardless, there is of course not enough unanimity to make a change of this magnitude, so I'm more looking for input on how much people want it or not in replays now and if so, what zoom level?

[asmo]

We are not saying that capping the zoom distance at half of its current value would make Myth 2 even better. What we are saying is Bungie did a perfect balance of where the Zoom Cap should be to allow for those "WTF" moments but not to the point where you have too little of vision of the battle field.

[tirri]

switch and punkuser, no one has said that the current zoom level makes the game better or worse. the point is that it would completely change the game and that is what we are against.

and wwo, i cant believe you are that stupid. there are literally 10 instances in every mwc final games where having 2x durther zoom would have completely changed the game. TUNNELVISIION affects evey game hugely