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Post by punkuser on Aug 13, 2012 17:49:44 GMT 2
That pretty much all sounds like BS, but I'm too lazy to prove it. These things invariably end up just being a waste of my time to prove someone's memory is faulty. Send me films of it being different in 1.3 or unwinnable or w/e and I'll look into it. "Films or it didn't happen."
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pyro
Still just a thrall
Posts: 13
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Post by pyro on Aug 13, 2012 19:24:15 GMT 2
Wwo, if you click on "Expand" under the tiny reply box it gets longer. Still small but less so. No need to seek them out, making a post in the magma forums like you did during the 1.7.0 public beta would do the trick of letting others know of the issue. Not all issues affect all players and the few that might are not always easily noticeable without the right steps to reproduce them. Dont get me started on patches. Ever since magma fucked around with the coop games. Levels have been damaged to unplayable. None of that coop stuff is true. If it happened to you, maybe you had modified versions of these maps in your local folder or ran a plugin that interfered with them. If Magma had messed with the solo maps, there would be patch plugins with those changes. In "The Great Library", you can still trigger all the enemies. In "Through the Ermine", you can still trigger that win. In "A Murder of Crows", make sure not to let any ghol escape, as they go warn Soulblighter. SB is never a problem otherwise because The Deceiver takes care of him when you free him. Just don't walk near SB or he will obviously attack you for escaping. |
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Post by headhunter on Aug 13, 2012 20:42:47 GMT 2
(wwo why don't you use the real reply box after the final post in the thread?)
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sasper
A better forum warrior
Posts: 112
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Post by sasper on Aug 13, 2012 22:20:43 GMT 2
magma pros:
1) game is playable in modern OS's
2) vastly improved user interface... windowing, resolution etc
magma cons:
1) some horrendous albeit temporary bugs. e.g 1.6 slowed some macs down to 1 frame every 5 seconds
2) pathfinding was written by developers with down's syndrome for several versions (1.5, 1.6)
3) every new version the devs have a competition who can make replays go OOS most frequently.
4) they still haven't figured out how to make the interface more responsive (e.g. cntrl click on macs needs half a second to resolve itself)
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Post by Aki on Aug 13, 2012 22:36:16 GMT 2
Wwo, if you click on "Expand" under the tiny reply box it gets longer. Still small but less so. you don't even have to click expand, you can drag the bottom bottom right corner to resize it however you want... |
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amino1
A better forum warrior
Posts: 117
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Post by amino1 on Aug 13, 2012 22:59:22 GMT 2
magma cons: 1) some horrendous albeit temporary bugs. e.g 1.6 slowed some macs down to 1 frame every 5 seconds 2) pathfinding was written by developers with down's syndrome for several versions (1.5, 1.6) 3) every new version the devs have a competition who can make replays go OOS most frequently. 4) they still haven't figured out how to make the interface more responsive (e.g. cntrl click on macs needs half a second to resolve itself) I'm pretty sure Magma has more important stuff to do than defend themselves from every misguided criticism. Like putting the finishing touches on 1.8 (which, by the way, is awesome--and no it doesn't influence gameplay). 1) That's merely a side effect of "vastly improving the user interface" and modernizing the game. If the tester base was bigger these things could be quashed before a public release and not only when someone with a unique configuration brings up the issue well after finalizing the update. 2) As I understand it, all pathfinding issues are a result of Bungie's original code. Magma has been, to my knowledge, investigating possible fixes but everything is a tradeoff and they are leery about actually implementing anything in this regard because of the inevitable backlash such a move would generate. Hence the emphasis on consensus before anything major is introduced in this area. 3) See 1. 4) Not sure what this means. As I understand it, Magma has made great strides in cleaning up and optimizing much of the original code and I'm certain that if you had an issue in any area they would be delighted with your feedback for improving the game's all-around performance. |
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sasper
A better forum warrior
Posts: 112
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Post by sasper on Aug 13, 2012 23:11:44 GMT 2
yeh i was being a bit of an asshole. magma is to be congratulated for their efforts keeping the game playable fro so long.
with #4 what is mean is this:
ok I'm too lazy to switch my control click to right click or whatever but... if i have a duff/lock/whatever and am being chased by the enemy, and control click to attack, then quickly click to retreat without holding cntrl, it treat the second click as a cntrl click, so attack my own own units. or have to wait about half a second or so before myth realises cntrl is no longer being held.
its really annoying when you're in the middle of a battle
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Post by melekor on Aug 14, 2012 1:56:32 GMT 2
This thread is bizarre.. mostly what I see is a bunch of people complaining about 1.4, 1.5, 1.6. That stuff is old. Really old.
Version 1.6 came out over 5 years ago and 1.4 was 9 years ago..
Did anyone actually have any issues with gameplay changes in the 1.7.x series?
For the record, the last time pathfinding was changed was in 1.7.0 when trow polka / magic dirt was fixed. I seem to recall that change was well received.
The idea that magma is "screwing with gameplay" just isn't true at all. The reality is the exact opposite. We've become very, very reluctant to change gameplay even if it would make the game better, because we just don't want to deal with all the whining and bitching from people who don't like change no matter what.
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Post by melekor on Aug 14, 2012 2:09:04 GMT 2
And now to address some individual posts. They just aren't capable of doing the few things we'd like changed anyway. We aren't capable of reading your mind, that's for sure. What kind of things are you talking about? Unless they can give us a standalone release that doesn't screw with gameplay, I'm tired of accepting their shitty changes just to get a slightly lower ping, the unnecessary option for 300 fps, gimmicks, or used-only-in-coop bullshit. I believe I addressed this in my above post. We haven't been in the business of changing gameplay for a very long time. As for the "gimmicks", they're always optional. If you think detail textures suck, then don't use them. Problem solved. Dont get me started on patches. Ever since magma fucked around with the coop games. Levels have been damaged to unplayable. That coop level that you free deciever from soulblighters prison. Soulbligher litterly patrolls your escape route. Oh and they killed the instant win on the Ermine level as well, not to mention the old favourite of mine the Babyshaker 2 berserk method of Triggering all enemies on "the great library" and survive. You cant even do this now, you must trigger the waves separately and its not the same feel. Did Magma even bother to play the standard coop meshes on legendary because I think at least 3 of them are bugged and unwinnable. Umm, yeah. None of that is actually true. with #4 what is mean is this: ok I'm too lazy to switch my control click to right click or whatever but... if i have a duff/lock/whatever and am being chased by the enemy, and control click to attack, then quickly click to retreat without holding cntrl, it treat the second click as a cntrl click, so attack my own own units. or have to wait about half a second or so before myth realises cntrl is no longer being held. its really annoying when you're in the middle of a battle That sounds like a legit concern, but it's not something magma introduced. If it's been bothering you for so long, why haven't you asked to have it fixed? Again, we aren't mind readers. Report your issues and don't suffer in silence. |
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Post by drunken on Aug 14, 2012 3:50:27 GMT 2
Um, I was with another player I think it was mike or Strongarm IX playing that level. He even saw the level broken.
This is typical bullshit from magma fanboys melekor and pyro. You simply dismiss my claims yet you have yet to try them yourself through the sheer arrogance. They are Broken, Sasper, Vantobia and half of my team-mates who play them at night while your sleeping (time difference) know that there has been alterations.
That Soulblighter level is broken. You need to get the crystal for the release of deceiver yet Soulblighter is patrolling so far north on that level that you have no chance to steal it under his nose.
All I can say is , actually play the *cruisering* levels before you tell me I am wrong.
Oh and Sasper if you read this, please confirm that the Ermine instant win, The library have had scripts changed or something has altered as its not the same as before.
edit; the change is actually that the ghols warning soublighter. You do not get a second chance like previous versions. if one ghol makes it soulblighter attacks.
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Post by punkuser on Aug 14, 2012 4:58:17 GMT 2
You simply dismiss my claims yet you have yet to try them yourself through the sheer arrogance. They are Broken, Sasper, Vantobia and half of my team-mates who play them at night while your sleeping (time difference) know that there has been alterations. If there are so many people who know it, it should be easy to send me a film right? There's no point arguing or speculating about any of this, you can very easily prove it with a film; but the burden of proof is squarely on you. All I can say is , actually play the *cruisering* levels before you tell me I am wrong. Pyro did go and check your claims which is more than I was willing to do. Why do I not bother looking into it without a film? Because I've done it dozens of times for similar claims in the last couple years and they are always wrong (i.e. no change from 1.3/whatever), and no matter how many times I do it people just transition to the next BS claim, so quite frankly I'm not going to waste my time on it if you're not even willing to take the 10 minutes that it takes to make a film. Plus I can just diff the code and tell you for sure that nothing has changed; as Pyro mentioned, you should have even been able to figure out the scripting one yourself since that would require a tag update... edit; the change is actually that the ghols warning soublighter. You do not get a second chance like previous versions. if one ghol makes it soulblighter attacks. Seriously, send me films of how it was different in 1.3 or stop wasting my time. If there truly is a regression we'd be more than happy to investigate and correct it. Have fun "proving" that you can't do the ermine win because I use that trick frequently to test various things. But of course you won't bother to come back here and apologize for spreading FUD when you discover it hasn't changed, will you?  |
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Post by punkuser on Aug 14, 2012 5:19:18 GMT 2
4) they still haven't figured out how to make the interface more responsive (e.g. cntrl click on macs needs half a second to resolve itself) I don't have a Mac, but on PC there have been vast improvements. Even as recently as 1.7.1 if you typed too fast it used to drop keystrokes... 1.7.2 corrected that finally. There have also been several frames of built-in latency removed from the game (and netcode) over the years so the overall game is quantitatively "more responsive" than in the past. Improving the game's performance also helps responsiveness obviously. Certainly you're not going to notice stuff over 60fps (unless you have a 120Hz monitor), but the original code ran at 30fps and 30-60 is quite noticeable. Furthermore while many have machines that can run the game north of 300fps, the optimizations make a big difference to the folks on lower-end hardware. For instance, 1.7.2 can reach 60fps on netbooks (and even tablets) whereas previously it was borderline unplayable. |
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Post by drunken on Aug 14, 2012 5:43:56 GMT 2
You simply dismiss my claims yet you have yet to try them yourself through the sheer arrogance. They are Broken, Sasper, Vantobia and half of my team-mates who play them at night while your sleeping (time difference) know that there has been alterations. If there are so many people who know it, it should be easy to send me a film right? There's no point arguing or speculating about any of this, you can very easily prove it with a film; but the burden of proof is squarely on you. Pyro did go and check your claims which is more than I was willing to do. Why do I not bother looking into it without a film? Because I've done it dozens of times for similar claims in the last couple years and they are always wrong (i.e. no change from 1.3/whatever), and no matter how many times I do it people just transition to the next BS claim, so quite frankly I'm not going to waste my time on it if you're not even willing to take the 10 minutes that it takes to make a film. Plus I can just diff the code and tell you for sure that nothing has changed; as Pyro mentioned, you should have even been able to figure out the scripting one yourself since that would require a tag update... edit; the change is actually that the ghols warning soublighter. You do not get a second chance like previous versions. if one ghol makes it soulblighter attacks. Seriously, send me films of how it was different in 1.3 or stop wasting my time. If there truly is a regression we'd be more than happy to investigate and correct it. Have fun "proving" that you can't do the ermine win because I use that trick frequently to test various things. But of course you won't bother to come back here and apologize for spreading FUD when you discover it hasn't changed, will you? 1.3 I was not even around for so I have no clue what to compare to. I just played the level again and I do remember always being at least 1 ghol able to get past and soulblighter used to grunt and then the 2nd ghol would always piss him off. Oh and I wont be wasting my time trying to prove what Ive said, to send video's would be pointless because your minds are obviously already made up. |
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Post by punkuser on Aug 14, 2012 6:35:19 GMT 2
1.3 I was not even around for so I have no clue what to compare to.  Um... so wait, your argument is that stuff may or may not be different than some other version that magma did that may or may not be different than the original Bungie code in 1.3? I'm losing track here... No comparison to anything other than 1.3 is really relevant. Yes, lots of crap was weird in 1.4.x for instance, but that's the whole point on why it got reverted. Even so, I still don't believe any of the stuff that you mentioned has ever been different until proven otherwise. Oh and I wont be wasting my time trying to prove what Ive said, to send video's would be pointless because your minds are obviously already made up. But yet you want me to waste my time on wild goose chases of yours that, as it turns out, are completely irrelevant to whether or not magma has changed anything vs the baseline 1.3 code anyways? Hysterical. Films provide cold hard facts which is what makes them great. Whether people's "minds are made up" or whatever is irrelevant if you provide a film... don't make excuses for being unable to back up your arguments. Films or it didn't happen. |
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pyro
Still just a thrall
Posts: 13
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Post by pyro on Aug 14, 2012 7:53:55 GMT 2
This is typical bullshit from magma fanboys melekor and pyro. You simply dismiss my claims yet you have yet to try them yourself through the sheer arrogance. They are Broken, Sasper, Vantobia and half of my team-mates who play them at night while your sleeping (time difference) know that there has been alterations. As punkuser stated, I did run the levels myself. I don't just assume people are wrong without knowing about the topic. It is simply not possible that these things have changed. It isn't like unit behavior or pathfinding which comes from the code and affects everything. The changes you state would require tag changes to be in a "Patch" plugin. None of the 3 maps you talked about have been altered by Magma. You can even load up the mapmaking tools and see these tags are as they were during Bungie days. When a ghol reaches SB, he doesn't just go out to kill you. He runs into his tent to get his weapon. Then he comes after you. Maybe you thought it took 2 ghols because by the time you let a second ghol get away, the first had already reached SB. Either you are not remembering right or you played with some funky plugin. Whatever the case, the arrogance isn't coming from us. I don't know why you talk about videos. When punkuser said films, he just meant the replay/recording you can save after you end a game. |
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