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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 20:11:57 GMT 2
You keep saying button mashing... skilled players use precise clicks and commands... there is no mashing involved. Your understanding of multitasking is weak at best. But there is a lot of repetitive clicking. Where a players intentions on unit control are based a lot on just how fast they can click. I think unit control should be as simple and intuitive as possible. So having the units follow through with what you want to do tactically is faster. Thats why I dont get why you and other top players are against this. Wouldnt you like to be able to execute you moves and tactics faster and easier without as much repetitive clicking? It would just lat you play even better. |
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Post by adrenaline on Aug 10, 2012 20:16:14 GMT 2
BECAUSE BEING ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS EFFECTIVELY IS WHAT SEPARATES PEOPLE IN SKILL.
HOW *cruisering* HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND?
You seem to be trying to find way to level the playing field... sick of getting your ass handed to you or something?
You keep using words like "simple" "intuitive" "easier"... yet you argue that this WOULD NOT dumb down the game? ...
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 20:17:01 GMT 2
Myrk
"And as for how melee got dumbed down, you do know that magma buffed the melee AI a while back so that just clicking in melee fights is no longer instant death against someone who micros their melee and uses gesture click right?"
I knew they did something to them, but it might have been around the time I had quit playing for awhile. So when I came back it was just how it was as far as I knew.
But it still is an advantage to micro with melee.
I might remember wrong but didnt melee units use to do real stupid stuff? Like walk around in a group of enemy and not attack anything?
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 20:34:47 GMT 2
BECAUSE BEING ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS EFFECTIVELY IS WHAT SEPARATES PEOPLE IN SKILL. HOW *cruisering* HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND? You seem to be trying to find way to level the playing field... sick of getting your ass handed to you or something? You keep using words like "simple" "intuitive" "easier"... yet you argue that this WOULD NOT dumb down the game? ... Your argument keeps standing on the fact that clicking speed should be the most important factor. As that being where skill should be separated is in click speed. Which it should to a certain amount, but why wast that speed on repetitive clcicking when it can be use in better ways. For example you are fighting someone. With the current setup: You are engaging his Bowmen with yours. You are shooting one at a time (as that is the way it works) Maybe your opponent has 3 weak Bowmen that need about 2 hits each to kill. So instead of picking them off 1 at a time. You would like to take them out at the same time. Ok with the current set up you could select 3 of your Bowmen 1 at a time and an enemy Bowmen for each of them 1 at a time. Thats 6 clicks. Now you are fast and maybe you could pull this off. You might even be able to dodge arrows with a remaining Bowmen you are so fast. Compare that same fight with my idea added. Your engaging his Bowmen shooting 1 at a time. You see the 3 weak Bowmen you want to take out. You select 3 of your Bowmen. Quickly drag the cursor through the 3 enemy Bowmen you want to target. Thats it your Bowmen are now attacking them. That would be so much faster. So with that extra time you could flank with a ghol. Or anything else. You now have more attack options more room for tactics because time isnt being wasted with repetitive clicking. Your superior speed is still going to be an advantage to you. You can just focus your speed in more productive ways. Like flanking or anything else that a slower player couldnt do. Strategically you know what you want to do, attack those 3 Bowmen and Flank with a Ghol, but your abilities are being limited by slower controls. Make the control easier and and faster and you can better meet your abilities. |
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Post by myrk on Aug 10, 2012 20:42:25 GMT 2
I don't care how dumb it looks for units to walk around doing nothing during fights if left to their own devices, the fact that it looks stupid is just a reflection of the player who lets them do that and doesn't micromanage.
My point was that microing your melee matters a lot less now and the fact that magma changed the melee AI made this game take less skill to play, and therefore it was a shitty change.
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Post by adrenaline on Aug 10, 2012 20:43:08 GMT 2
 I can already do that shit without your noob-enhancing idea. I usually do target more than one unit at a time, if I feel it will help. And I can flank shit while doing this WITH THE CURRENT SETUP. What you are suggesting basically eliminates the skills needed and time taken to master these skills. I.E. DUMBING THE GAME DOWN. And I never said clicking speed is THE most important factor. I said it is a VERY important factor... obviously not THE only factor. |
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 21:31:06 GMT 2
I can already do that shit without your noob-enhancing idea. I usually do target more than one unit at a time, if I feel it will help. And I can flank shit while doing this WITH THE CURRENT SETUP. What you are suggesting basically eliminates the skills needed and time taken to master these skills. I.E. DUMBING THE GAME DOWN. And I never said clicking speed is THE most important factor. I said it is a VERY important factor... obviously not THE only factor. Adren Your not getting my point. However much you can do now however fast you can do it. Doesnt matter. It would still be faster FOR YOU with what I am saying. In that example I gave. Standard way: You have 6 clicks. Click 1 of your Bowmen - Click an Enemy Bowmen -Click 1 of your Bowmen- Click an Enemy Bowmen -Click 1 of your Bowmen-Click an Enemy Bowmen. New way: Compare that to selecting 3 of your Bowmen at the same time (with Presets or a standard "selection box" however). Then running your cursor across 3 enemy Bowmen. Thats it. That has got to be 4x faster. For the same result. So now that you accomplished that so much faster by cutting out a bunch of repetitive clicking. You can use you speed for better things. It doesnt matter how fast you are. This would allow you to make moves or attacks faster by eliminating a bunch of unnecessary clicking just to do a simple task. Now you can do MORE stuff, apply more tactics. Make even more attacks at once. Your speed IS JUST as important its just used more efficiently. This will let you do even more attacks or whatever in the same amount of time. You would be able to accomplish more than before. Therefore you could play even better than you do now. Basically it is like this. If you can do X amount of stuff in a certain amount of time. You would be able to do X+Y amount of stuff now. Since you are removing a lot of repetitive clicking. |
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Post by adrenaline on Aug 10, 2012 21:34:38 GMT 2
HOLY *cruiser* YOU ARE THICK
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Post by giantkillergeneral on Aug 10, 2012 21:47:32 GMT 2
LOL
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par73
Forum legend
Posts: 935
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Post by par73 on Aug 10, 2012 22:45:53 GMT 2
This is what happened with Myth 3
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Post by headhunter on Aug 10, 2012 22:49:05 GMT 2
I'm a few pages behind ---
To bounce off of GKG's "King of the Map" Idea I'd like to see an update where all KOTH Maps have the option for ball koth or flag koth.
Multiple Koth Flags is an idea I've been interested in for some time and Zak may have added it to his zffa pack in a map or two - I'm uncertain, I know we discussed it.
Also, modifying maps with center starts removed (grave/web...TFL maps) to make KOTH a possibility on wonderful and well known maps where this has been previously unfeasible.
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Post by headhunter on Aug 10, 2012 22:53:11 GMT 2
I really like the idea of archers being able to attack multiple units of the same kind.
I really don't like the idea of archers being able to attack multiple units of the same kind With fire arrows.
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 23:46:49 GMT 2
HOLY *cruiser* YOU ARE THICK Really it seems that you are thick and just cant get it. Did you read what I said? Read this. Your not getting my point. However much you can do now however fast you can do it. Doesnt matter. It would still be faster FOR YOU with what I am saying. In that example I gave. Standard way: You have 6 clicks. Click 1 of your Bowmen - Click an Enemy Bowmen -Click 1 of your Bowmen- Click an Enemy Bowmen -Click 1 of your Bowmen-Click an Enemy Bowmen. New way: Compare that to selecting 3 of your Bowmen at the same time (with Presets or a standard "selection box" however). Then running your cursor across 3 enemy Bowmen. Thats it. That has got to be 4x faster. For the same result. So now that you accomplished that so much faster by cutting out a bunch of repetitive clicking. You can use you speed for better things. It doesnt matter how fast you are. This would allow you to make moves or attacks faster by eliminating a bunch of unnecessary clicking just to do a simple task. Now you can do MORE stuff, apply more tactics. Make even more attacks at once. Your speed IS JUST as important its just used more efficiently. This will let you do even more attacks or whatever in the same amount of time. You would be able to accomplish more than before. Therefore you could play even better than you do now. Basically it is like this. If you can do X amount of stuff in a certain amount of time. You would be able to do X+Y amount of stuff now. Since you are removing a lot of repetitive clicking. I'll put it another way. You yourself are fast at clicking units. So you can make X clicks in Y amount of time. In the example I had with the Bowmen. With the normal method you do 6 clicks to target 3 enemy Bowmen with 3 of your Bowmen. Plus however many other clicks you can make and however many units you can move or attack with. The amount doesnt matter. You can only make X clicks in Y time. So if you can use those clicks more efficiently the more stuff you can do. So say in that amount of time you targeted 3 enemy Bowmen with 3 of yours. 6 CLICKS. You also flanked with a Ghol say 2 Clicks. You have 8 clicks in Y time. And had 4 units doing stuff. With the method I am saying. You SAVE basically 4 clicks with just the Bowmen alone. Now you can use those 4 clicks to move or attack with. So now you have the Bowmen attacking 2 Clicks. Ghol flanking 2 Clicks. You have 4 more clicks to use for something else. In the same amount of time. Yes your good and I understand you can do a bunch of stuff at once. But by being able to do something with less repetitive clicks (like with the Bowmen) than it usually takes will allow you to use that same number of clicks for more in game actions. Use them more efficiently. The 4 clicks you save with the Bowmen is 4 clicks you can use on other units. In the same amount of time. No matter what this would make accomplishing some tasks faster by saving repetitive clicks. You would STILL do the same number of clicks in the same amount of time but you could accomplish more tasks. You should like this idea. It will let you do even more stuff faster. Basically you could play even better. You are against something that would let you play even better than you currently do. |
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 23:51:56 GMT 2
I really like the idea of archers being able to attack multiple units of the same kind. I really don't like the idea of archers being able to attack multiple units of the same kind With fire arrows. I would be willing to drop the idea of them being able to use it for fire Arrows to get more support. It may not be hard to do, just have the "special attack" key disable or be disabled by the "selection box" key. But if it werent possible or practical to separate the two. I would rather have the ability to attack multiple units with Bowmen. And have the Flame Arrow also. |
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pogue
Forum elite
Posts: 642
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Post by pogue on Aug 10, 2012 23:55:34 GMT 2
The average skill level of the people for it is vastly below the average skill level of the people against it, and that's saying a lot considering that drunken and pogue are terrible players. Hey now Myrk, they sell action figures of me beside Batman at Toys R Us. Get at my level. The one thing I have learned from this conversation has been that Sam is the smartest member of Gru, which makes him the smartest kid with down syndrome, which makes GKG and Adren bullies for picking on him. You two should be ashamed of yourselves from trying to talk sense to this kid. Grim I demand this thread be moved to spam immediately before Sam gets his Gru friends to start posting plush pony threads on the forums giving Liger hope. |
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