Opinions on new M2 attack option?

[samthebutcher]

GKG
"You aren't very well known by the myth community so I just wanted to see how deep of a hole you were going to dig for yourself. Very deep as it turns out. You have just lost all credibility amongst the competitive myth community. My job here is done."

As this matters to me in the slightest bit. Like I said some people put way to much of their self value in a video game. Apparently you seem to think it is very important.

[pogue]

[adrenaline]

Aug 10, 2012 18:21:41 GMT 2 samthebutcher said:

Also Adren

However easier it made it for noobs (if it did) it would also make it that much easier for pros. So you could focus less on button mashing and more on tactics.

Same with like the Flame Arrows. Everyone could do it. If a noob could use that feature good, well you could use it like a Pro. It would be more true to life also. It wouldnt be something you always did. Just maybe sometimes. You still might want to land some Flames behind and in front of the enemy Bowmen. Not just aimed right on them like this would do.

And yes maybe it would reduce some of the clicking you did for that but, that would allow you to focus and click on other things. It would just eliminate some repetitive clicking but not clicking amount. The better players are always going capitalize on an advantage or option better than a lesser player.

It would just give you more room to maneuver.

Or someone could just make a command that plays the entire game for you, and you can focus on real life tactics, like the fastest route to the grocery store, or laundry.

Jesus christ man... of course if the newbs could use it, the pros could use it... hence why i think it would dumb the game down. Again, just stop man. You are embarrassing yourself.

[samthebutcher]

GKG because I am a nice guy here is a list of people for and against this so far.

These are people who are:
For it, dont mind, think it is worth trying. From 3 forums.

Sam
Harpo
Vindicator
Melekor
Homer
HeadHunter
Vihaan
Sasper (I think is a maybe.) He said "anything that lets you control units closer to your intentions would be great. having to click quickly and accurately is the most tedious and boring part of the game. don't know why someone would think it dumbs down the game... its just like with presets, they don't dumb it down, just lets you implement your tactics & strategy as you intend instead of spending all your time pointing&clicking. increases the quality of play..."

Dantski: Doesnt think it really add much but, doesnt think it would hurt anything.

Against it:

Drunken
Adren
Pogue
Myrk
Waywardone (but he thought it would interfere with "ground attack")
GKG

So actually more people are for it. It is mostly just 2 people totally fighting against it. One says it would have little to no effect while the other says it would dumb thinks down and have too much effect. But still not effect the out come of any games. However that works.

[giantkillergeneral]

i didn't suggest you should care if people knew you, i suggested that I didn't know who you were so I wanted to see how you would handle yourself.

at your above post: hahahahaahaha

god this is now just hilarious

[adrenaline]

half the people you said are for it really never indicated that they are actually for it... headhunter just said MY idea was interesting and that he didnt think your idea would dumb down the game. Don't misinterpret that as support.

Homer said "Do it." - too vague, and clearly you don't understand how homer thinks.

Harpo - who?
Vindicator - who?
melekor - does this guy play anything other than mazz?
vihaan - clueless idiot
sasper - refer to vihaan

your list of people against it, however, are active and above average players who actually know wtf they are talking about.

this list did not help your case at all.

[samthebutcher]

Aug 10, 2012 19:00:27 GMT 2 adrenaline said:

Aug 10, 2012 18:21:41 GMT 2 samthebutcher said:

Also Adren

However easier it made it for noobs (if it did) it would also make it that much easier for pros. So you could focus less on button mashing and more on tactics.

Same with like the Flame Arrows. Everyone could do it. If a noob could use that feature good, well you could use it like a Pro. It would be more true to life also. It wouldnt be something you always did. Just maybe sometimes. You still might want to land some Flames behind and in front of the enemy Bowmen. Not just aimed right on them like this would do.

And yes maybe it would reduce some of the clicking you did for that but, that would allow you to focus and click on other things. It would just eliminate some repetitive clicking but not clicking amount. The better players are always going capitalize on an advantage or option better than a lesser player.

It would just give you more room to maneuver.

Or someone could just make a command that plays the entire game for you, and you can focus on real life tactics, like the fastest route to the grocery store, or laundry.

Jesus christ man... of course if the newbs could use it, the pros could use it... hence why i think it would dumb the game down. Again, just stop man. You are embarrassing yourself.

I am not embarrassing myself. I could never be embarrassed by what someone like you thought. I would be more likely to be embarrassed by what my neighbors dog thought about me.

You have to care about what someone thinks to be embarrassed.

So we are back to the whole the more buttons you have to click the more skill it takes and that is where all the focus should be. Button mashing. Lets get rid of "Presets" and selecting multiple units in anyway. We can just Dumb the game down to who clicks faster.

Which is what it seems that you want. Heavily weighted to how fast you can click. Tactics and strats are a distant second.

My idea takes away some of the repetitive clicking and lets people control their units more intuitively and effectively. So players can focus more on strats than just button mashing. Either way click speed is important.

[samthebutcher]

Aug 10, 2012 19:16:57 GMT 2 adrenaline said:

half the people you said are for it really never indicated that they are actually for it... headhunter just said MY idea was interesting and that he didnt think your idea would dumb down the game. Don't misinterpret that as support.

Homer said "Do it." - too vague, and clearly you don't understand how homer thinks.

Harpo - who?
Vindicator - who?
melekor - does this guy play anything other than mazz?
vihaan - clueless idiot
sasper - refer to vihaan

your list of people against it, however, are active and above average players who actually know wtf they are talking about.

this list did not help your case at all.

I know no one matters but you right? Either way you want to look at it. It is pretty even. Also it is barely over a dozen people that have commented. Not even enough for a decent sample of active players.

About the flame arrows. Anybody could do it so it balances out. Plus it isnt always going to be the best idea to launch all of your Flames at once. You would still have to decide when it was best. You just have that additional option. One more tactic you could use.

[adrenaline]

why the *cruiser* do you keep comparing this to presets? presets have always been a part of this game, numbnuts. and good players click fast AND focus on strat and tactics. it's called multitasking.

you should learn how to multitask. perhaps *cruisering* yourself and shutting the *cruiser* up simultaneously would be good practice.

[dantski]

Just a few things to think about though. Have you ever played a Plugin where the Bowmen can select multiple targets? I have one where that is enable for them to do. It does add another dynamic to the game. On one attack they will target one of your Bowmen on the next they may target them all. So what happens is you have an arrow flying at each of your Bowmen. So you may have 3 Bowmen take 1 arrow each. Where as if the enemy would have all fired at a single Bowmen he may have dodged them all and no arrows hit.

Not exactly, I played a plugin where by hitting T or something to that effect, your archers would all fire directly in front of them. Its a massive change to the game because it radically changes how archer fights would work. As for your example, if they directly target different bowmen or focus one it makes little to no difference since you'll move all your units to the side to dodge typically, not just 1 or 2.

Plus wouldnt it be useful even sometimes to be able to attack maybe just 2 enemy Bowmen with all of yours in one quick move? VS always only being able to attack 1 at a time? Even if it is just when you are VS a group of weak Bowmen.

This could be achieved by splitting archers into 2 presets and then targetting quickly, admittedly its slower and more cumbersome than your suggestion though.

Then there is the effect on Fire Arrows. If you select multiple targets with Fire Arrows. They will be spread out across the enemy formation

Unfortunately this would be dumbing down the game. It would be really nice to use when you try to throw satchels down then flame.

With Melee you could select a mix of units in one area of the enemy formation, not just 1 type. This would send all your units to that spot to attack the selected enemy units. So they wouldnt spread out through the whole enemy formation. For the times you didnt want them to. Other times you might want to attack as normal. It is just another option available.

While you could do that it would be a far weaker option than just gesture clicking and microing your melee. This sounds like something a bad player would use and wonder why they keep losing melee fights.

[samthebutcher]

Aug 10, 2012 19:34:20 GMT 2 adrenaline said:

why the *cruiser* do you keep comparing this to presets? presets have always been a part of this game, numbnuts. and good players click fast AND focus on strat and tactics. it's called multitasking.

you should learn how to multitask. perhaps *cruisering* yourself and shutting the *cruiser* up simultaneously would be good practice.

Look at you now. Getting all upset, resorting to insults wow. Get a grip.

It wouldnt take away any multitasking. Just allow you to multitask in less repetitive and tedious button mashing ways.

About the flame arrows. Anybody could do it so it balances out. Plus it isnt always going to be the best idea to launch all of your Flames at once. You would still have to decide when it was best. You just have that additional option. One more tactic you could use.

[samthebutcher]

Aug 10, 2012 19:38:39 GMT 2 dantski said:

Just a few things to think about though. Have you ever played a Plugin where the Bowmen can select multiple targets? I have one where that is enable for them to do. It does add another dynamic to the game. On one attack they will target one of your Bowmen on the next they may target them all. So what happens is you have an arrow flying at each of your Bowmen. So you may have 3 Bowmen take 1 arrow each. Where as if the enemy would have all fired at a single Bowmen he may have dodged them all and no arrows hit.

Not exactly, I played a plugin where by hitting T or something to that effect, your archers would all fire directly in front of them. Its a massive change to the game because it radically changes how archer fights would work. As for your example, if they directly target different bowmen or focus one it makes little to no difference since you'll move all your units to the side to dodge typically, not just 1 or 2.



This could be achieved by splitting archers into 2 presets and then targetting quickly, admittedly its slower and more cumbersome than your suggestion though.



Unfortunately this would be dumbing down the game. It would be really nice to use when you try to throw satchels down then flame.

With Melee you could select a mix of units in one area of the enemy formation, not just 1 type. This would send all your units to that spot to attack the selected enemy units. So they wouldnt spread out through the whole enemy formation. For the times you didnt want them to. Other times you might want to attack as normal. It is just another option available.

While you could do that it would be a far weaker option than just gesture clicking and microing your melee. This sounds like something a bad player would use and wonder why they keep losing melee fights.

Dantski I respect you that you can have a mature debate and give reasonable examples of why you feel like you do.

Yea the Flames would be different more powerful maybe. But everyone could do it and you wouldnt want to always launch them all at once. Just another option. With regular arrows you could target any number of units. Which would be easier than using Presets like you said. I think though it would be more true to life. And balance out since everyone could use it.

I'm not trying to change your mind. I agree with what you said. I just dont think it would dumb thinks down, just make the controls more intuitive. But I respect your opinion. Not everyone is going to agree on anything.

And you are probably right about the melee.

It wouldnt hurt to have it added though since a person just wouldnt have to use it. But it would be there just incase.

[adrenaline]

You keep saying button mashing... skilled players use precise clicks and commands... there is no mashing involved. Your understanding of multitasking is weak at best.

[adrenaline]

Aug 10, 2012 19:56:21 GMT 2 samthebutcher said:

Aug 10, 2012 19:38:39 GMT 2 dantski said:

Dantski I respect you that you can have a mature debate and give reasonable examples of why you feel like you do.

Everyone WAS doing this until you insisted on perpetuating this idea for 8 frickin pages, saying the exact same thing over and over and over. Around here we call that relentless stupidity.

[myrk]

Aug 10, 2012 19:08:16 GMT 2 samthebutcher said:

These are people who are:
For it, dont mind, think it is worth trying. From 3 forums.

Sam
Harpo
Vindicator
Melekor
Homer
HeadHunter
Vihaan
Sasper (I think is a maybe.) He said "anything that lets you control units closer to your intentions would be great. having to click quickly and accurately is the most tedious and boring part of the game. don't know why someone would think it dumbs down the game... its just like with presets, they don't dumb it down, just lets you implement your tactics & strategy as you intend instead of spending all your time pointing&clicking. increases the quality of play..."

Dantski: Doesnt think it really add much but, doesnt think it would hurt anything.

Against it:

Drunken
Adren
Pogue
Myrk
Waywardone (but he thought it would interfere with "ground attack")
GKG

The average skill level of the people for it is vastly below the average skill level of the people against it, and that's saying a lot considering that drunken and pogue are terrible players.

And as for how melee got dumbed down, you do know that magma buffed the melee AI a while back so that just clicking in melee fights is no longer instant death against someone who micros their melee and uses gesture click right?

And your argument over the fire arrow thing just admits it dumbs down the game.