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Post by punkuser on Aug 9, 2012 22:47:05 GMT 2
i have no interest in testing pathfinding, I'm sure some others did. I would help test something I found interesting. That's fine, and indeed others did test it. Hence working with the community, etc. And I don't know what you are talking about a lack of agreement in this thread. The agreement is no1 really likes this feature. Sure for the initial feature, and it was immediately rejected on the magma forums as well. But there's a fair bit of disagreement (between adren and others, etc) what represents a good feature that doesn't reduce the advantage of micro in the game. It was the same for pathfinding... lots of disagreement. Anyways if everyone can agree on everything that'll certainly make things easier in the future  Maybe I should replace "competitive" player with "top skilled" i.e. yourself and whomever agrees with you?  |
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Post by giantkillergeneral on Aug 10, 2012 0:44:51 GMT 2
Well yea, if you ask the entire general populace of any community you are bound to get overwhelmed with stupidity instead of sensibility. Find the people who actually know what they are talking about and you will find it easier to find a consensus and with much better results.
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Post by punkuser on Aug 10, 2012 2:32:36 GMT 2
Agreed. In any case, happy to work with you and others on gameplay stuff that you'd like to see addressed (or nothing, as has been the status quo for the past few years).
Anyways been working on a pile of features to make tourneys, stats, etc. easier and better so it'll be good to get the community's feedback and suggestions on that in the near future.
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 4:48:30 GMT 2
Just so it doesnt look like I am making stuff up. Here is what Melekor said about it at the Tain forums.
"I do like the attack selection box idea in theory, and it should be relatively easy to code too. But, it would affect reg gameplay in a big way and it's not at all clear to me whether that would be a good thing or not. Magma has received a lot of criticism in the past for smaller changes than that, so the feature would have to be seen to be broadly supported for us to even consider adding it. Even then, it's potentially a divisive issue. It's unfortunate but these are the politics of an old game with a small diehard community."
This was followed by more post basically saying that it would all depend on the reaction of the community especially competitive players before it was even considered. So I am pretty sure there wont be any game play changes unless a large majority of players dont object.
Also this idea has NOT been rejected by everyone. I have this up at 3 forums and there HAS been some positive response to it. Even GKG said he wouldnt mind it being added as long as it didnt effect his game. So to say it has been totally rejected is false.
Also the number of people that have responded to it is relatively small compared to even the number of active players.
So I dont think the debate should be over yet all at.
Putting that aside what about considering this at least? This is where the idea stemmed from. I just figured "selection boxes" would be even better and also address some melee unit issues.
Allow the Bowmen to select multiple targets of the same type just like melee units do? This only makes sense to me and is way more realistic. It should have probably always been that way. Again it would not be an always on thing. It would be something you activated with a double-click or holding a button and clicking.
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Post by giantkillergeneral on Aug 10, 2012 4:57:20 GMT 2
sam I think your discussion on this is starting to wear out its welcome. No one is interested in this idea for a potential feature. I said I wouldn't object to it, but I am not in favor of it either. I mostly ride the fence of indifference on this one but lean towards just not doing it. I don't think there was a single person here in favor of it. It is time to move on, you are trying to solve a problem that only exists in your own mind. No on here perceives the current gameplay for archer fights as a problem like you do.
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 5:30:12 GMT 2
sam I think your discussion on this is starting to wear out its welcome. No one is interested in this idea for a potential feature. I said I wouldn't object to it, but I am not in favor of it either. I mostly ride the fence of indifference on this one but lean towards just not doing it. I don't think there was a single person here in favor of it. It is time to move on, you are trying to solve a problem that only exists in your own mind. No on here perceives the current gameplay for archer fights as a problem like you do. GKG there has been, what maybe 6-8 people comment on this idea here? Thats not many people compared to even the amount of active players. And like I said the idea hasnt been rejected by all. I am not sure how you could even say that. It isnt meant to fix anything, nothing is really broken. Myth, the Units whatever, are what they are. You cant say they are broken. Compared to what? However Myth works is just how it is. However the units work players will always learn to use them. These are ideas to not fix but improve the game. More control, new tactics to learn, something fresh, room to expand ect. Isnt one of the great things about Myth is learning, and improving? I am still improving but, some of you top players have got to be feeling constrained no room to improve or expand, basically you have brought your game to the max possible level with Myth as it currently is. You know every trick, tried everything etc. Wouldnt you like to see some new controls added? It would give you new choices for how to use your units? That would give you even maybe just a little bit more options in a battle. A little more strategy and tactics possible. A little more room to improve your game. A little bit more room to separate the top players. Either way your opinion on it has been duly noted. |
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pogue
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Post by pogue on Aug 10, 2012 6:08:39 GMT 2
sam I think your discussion on this is starting to wear out its welcome. No one is interested in this idea for a potential feature. I said I wouldn't object to it, but I am not in favor of it either. I mostly ride the fence of indifference on this one but lean towards just not doing it. I don't think there was a single person here in favor of it. It is time to move on, you are trying to solve a problem that only exists in your own mind. No one here perceives the current gameplay for archer fights as a problem like you do. Pretty much, I can't believe you guys debated a member of GRU for 5 pages over a retarded idea. Leave myth alone. 1.7.2 is as good as it's going to get. Just leave the old girl alone and learn how to play something other than Gimble Sam...oh actually learn how to play gimble first. |
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Post by kryptos on Aug 10, 2012 6:35:24 GMT 2
Leave game play dynamics alone. The more options invented, the more diluted the unique dynamics of Myth become. Focus on superficial improvements, or perhaps investigate the idea of creating new game types to add in addition to the existing. With the combined creativity of skilled players and technical know how, this would be an acceptable and revitalizing feat. while maintaining integrity of the current game dynamics.
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 6:36:17 GMT 2
Here come the idiots.  Dodi Doh..... |
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par73
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Post by par73 on Aug 10, 2012 7:01:48 GMT 2
sam I think your discussion on this is starting to wear out its welcome. No one is interested in this idea for a potential feature. I said I wouldn't object to it, but I am not in favor of it either. I mostly ride the fence of indifference on this one but lean towards just not doing it. I don't think there was a single person here in favor of it. It is time to move on, you are trying to solve a problem that only exists in your own mind. No one here perceives the current gameplay for archer fights as a problem like you do. Pretty much, I can't believe you guys debated a member of GRU for 5 pages over a retarded idea. Leave myth alone. 1.7.2 is as good as it's going to get. Just leave the old girl alone and learn how to play something other than Gimble Sam...oh actually learn how to play gimble first. Sam is one of the few to ever beat tirri in a tournament. it was a gimble tournament |
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par73
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Post by par73 on Aug 10, 2012 7:02:53 GMT 2
For melee you would also gain additional attack options and benefits. First instead of only being able to select a group of units of one type in a mixed group of enemy units, you would be able to attack a section of the enemy group regardless of unit type. Another benefit would be that it would help avoid the issue where melee units when sent to attack another group of units will sometimes circle around to the back of the group while ignoring closer units that are attacking them. They would attack enemies only in the section you selected then fight as normal. Now you could use a "selection box" to attack for instance the front line of a mixed melee group. Or with this setup you could direct your units to focus their attack on one side of an enemy formation. Sort of like a tactical flank, instead of your melee spreading out through the whole line of enemy units. You would be able to concentrate your melee attacks. Which is more realistic to an actual battle. While still being able to micro managing individual units in a melee fight. Plus you would still be able to do all attacks the same way you always have. You can gain these benefits by simply using and mastering presets, oh boy~! where's the mwc13 competition!!! |
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Post by waywardone on Aug 10, 2012 7:20:54 GMT 2
Isn't this redundant? If I want my arcs to randomly shoot targets in front of them, I just move them in range and gesture them. What do I need the box-select for?
I mod several games. There's a distinct dichotomy in modding: coders who mod, and gamers who mod. This suggestion is a pure code-mod. Archers selectively ( <-- key word; don't be retarded and argue without it) shooting melee is asininely insignificant in myth and is already well covered by micro. Batch shooting one unit type amidst others is pretty much code masturbation.
I'm ecstatic people still want to make this game better, but if you want broader appeal than mazzers and coopers, you need to bring these ideas to the (this) table sooner. Give it to us in raw form. Don't say "Here's this idea and here's what we can use it for." Say "Here's this idea; what are some ways we can use it?" There's no reason this can't be used creatively.
As far as controls vis. getting in the way aka misclicks, something like this needs to be a toggle either in the startup or game options.
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Post by vihaan on Aug 10, 2012 7:54:39 GMT 2
i'm for it
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Post by samthebutcher on Aug 10, 2012 8:21:52 GMT 2
It still seems like some people arent getting it.
Try this in a game. Just go through the motions.
1:Select your units you want to attack with.
2: Hold down a key and the mouse button.
3: Now run your cursor through the units you want to attack.
Thats it.
It doesnt have to be a huge box around a bunch of units. Its that easy, fast and simple. Try it out. I have and, it is basically the same as clicking an enemy unit.
1: It wouldnt be a huge advantage to anyone. Anyone can use it.
2: It would have zero effect on anyone not wanting to use it.
It would give 1 more attack option.
Right now Bowmen can only attack 1 unit at a time. With melee you can attack 1 unit or a group of the same. You have only 1 or 2 attack options. Now you would have 3. Thats it, but that extra attack option gives you more choices. More choices allow for more tactics and strategies. More tactics and strategy let you expand your game and have more room to improve.
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pogue
Forum elite
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Post by pogue on Aug 10, 2012 8:44:23 GMT 2
Pretty much, I can't believe you guys debated a member of GRU for 5 pages over a retarded idea. Leave myth alone. 1.7.2 is as good as it's going to get. Just leave the old girl alone and learn how to play something other than Gimble Sam...oh actually learn how to play gimble first. Sam is one of the few to ever beat tirri in a tournament. it was a gimble tournament I call bullshit on that, considering I've never lost to him on Gimble and Tirri would chew me up and spit me out for breakfast. |
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