Opinions on new M2 attack option?

[giantkillergeneral]

I think what we have all learned in this thread is 2 things:

1) that Sam is clearly a complete idiot, befitting of membership in clan gru
2) that his idiotic idea will never be implemented no matter how much he bitches, moans, whines, conjures imaginary support for, or repetitively writes about it.

[Aki]

3) adren and gkg really enjoy arguing with idiots

[giantkillergeneral]

im pretty sure that has been known for years aki. nice try tho

[waywardone]

Let me summarize this whole thing.

What Sam wants to add is an Easy Button to do what good players already can do or have no need/desire to do.

Just fork the exe already. Have one with community-requested fixes only (like latency, more game options, etc). Then *cruiser* with the other one for OoH-style tweaks as much as you like. We're fine with Myth the way it is, and have adjusted to every version we've had to. If you want to fix legitimate annoyances, great. Anything else gameplay-related shouldn't be attempted.

This proposal is the equivalent of lowering the basket in basketball. Only midgets see this as a good thing.

[milkman]

Two points:

(a) In Olympic basketball the 3 point line is closer than in NBA, lol.

(b) How does one use gesture click as a way of winning melee battles as some have mentioned here?

[iron]

Let me summarize something else (not for the 1st time in this thread)...

Sam is not Magma, has nothing to do with Magma, the Magma devs have not supported his idea, nor are they implementing it.

[iron]

How does one use gesture click as a way of winning melee battles as some have mentioned here?

milkman, if your units are in a tight formation and facing towards the enemy (the gesture click) then they'll auto attack the nearest enemy unit. Myth 2 clumping lets them get close enough so that multiple units are hitting that enemy, which dies quickly & then its onto the next etc.

By contrast, clicking to attack means that Myth assigns each of your units a target in the enemy group. They try to walk to that target, and will only give up if another enemy of the same type gets in their way. So while the click-gestured group is hacking & slaying, most of the click-to-attack group is walking.

[pogue]

Notice how this is the first time Sam hasn't been like every third post in this thread? Good job Doc and Adren LOOOOL.

[milkman]

Aug 11, 2012 8:14:51 GMT 2 iron said:

if your units are in a tight formation and facing towards the enemy (the gesture click) then they'll auto attack the nearest enemy unit. Myth 2 clumping lets them get close enough so that multiple units are hitting that enemy, which dies quickly & then its onto the next etc.

Oh I knew that... is that all people meant? Damnit, there must be more trixxx.

Also noon ever answered this question... is it true that when your hgh get vetted you can make them attack faster by clicking on their target over and over because it makes the attack refresh faster or something? Or is it just a Miff Myth?

[iron]

Aug 11, 2012 8:56:51 GMT 2 milkman said:

Aug 11, 2012 8:14:51 GMT 2 iron said:

if your units are in a tight formation and facing towards the enemy (the gesture click) then they'll auto attack the nearest enemy unit. Myth 2 clumping lets them get close enough so that multiple units are hitting that enemy, which dies quickly & then its onto the next etc.

Oh I knew that... is that all people meant? Damnit, there must be more trixxx.

Also noon ever answered this question... is it true that when your hgh get vetted you can make them attack faster by clicking on their target over and over because it makes the attack refresh faster or something? Or is it just a Miff Myth?

Yeah you've been around so long I was surprised you asked, and it works the same now as it always has. There's no way to cheat the attack refresh that I know of - certainly clicking over & over won't do it.

[samthebutcher]

Aug 11, 2012 5:22:09 GMT 2 waywardone said:

Let me summarize this whole thing.

What Sam wants to add is an Easy Button to do what good players already can do or have no need/desire to do.

Just fork the exe already. Have one with community-requested fixes only (like latency, more game options, etc). Then *cruiser* with the other one for OoH-style tweaks as much as you like. We're fine with Myth the way it is, and have adjusted to every version we've had to. If you want to fix legitimate annoyances, great. Anything else gameplay-related shouldn't be attempted.

This proposal is the equivalent of lowering the basket in basketball. Only midgets see this as a good thing.

Some people just dont get it. IT IS NOT dumb anything down. It is not an EASY BUTTON or anything like that. I wish people would read before they commented.

All it does is reduce some of the repetitive clicking. I gave examples of this. A better player is still going to have the advantage of having a faster clicking speed. Your clicks would just be more efficient. I dont see how people dont get this.

READ THIS: This is why it doesnt help noobs or lower the hoop or anything like that. It just allows people to do more in the same amount of time than they do now. It goes for everybody and the top players could use this to the MOST advantage.

Here is what I said
"For example you are fighting someone. With the current setup:

You are engaging his Bowmen with yours. You are shooting one at a time (as that is the way it works) Maybe your opponent has 3 weak Bowmen that need about 2 hits each to kill. So instead of picking them off 1 at a time. You would like to take them out at the same time. Ok with the current set up you could select 3 of your Bowmen 1 at a time and an enemy Bowmen for each of them 1 at a time. Thats 6 clicks. Now you are fast and maybe you could pull this off. You might even be able to dodge arrows with a remaining Bowmen you are so fast.

Compare that same fight with my idea added.
Your engaging his Bowmen shooting 1 at a time. You see the 3 weak Bowmen you want to take out. You select 3 of your Bowmen. Quickly drag the cursor through the 3 enemy Bowmen you want to target. Thats it your Bowmen are now attacking them. That would be so much faster. So with that extra time you could flank with a ghol. Or anything else. You now have more attack options more room for tactics because time isnt being wasted with repetitive clicking.

Your superior speed is still going to be an advantage to you. You can just focus your speed in more productive ways. Like flanking or anything else that a slower player couldnt do.

Strategically you know what you want to do, attack those 3 Bowmen and Flank with a Ghol, but your abilities are being limited by slower controls. Make the control easier and and faster and you can better meet your abilities. "

AND I SAID
"in that example I gave.
Standard way:
You have 6 clicks. Click 1 of your Bowmen - Click an Enemy Bowmen -Click 1 of your Bowmen- Click an Enemy Bowmen -Click 1 of your Bowmen-Click an Enemy Bowmen.

New way:
Compare that to selecting 3 of your Bowmen at the same time (with Presets or a standard "selection box" however). Then running your cursor across 3 enemy Bowmen. Thats it. That has got to be 4x faster. For the same result. So now that you accomplished that so much faster by cutting out a bunch of repetitive clicking. You can use you speed for better things.

It doesnt matter how fast you are. This would allow you to make moves or attacks faster by eliminating a bunch of unnecessary clicking just to do a simple task. Now you can do MORE stuff, apply more tactics. Make even more attacks at once. Your speed IS JUST as important its just used more efficiently. This will let you do even more attacks or whatever in the same amount of time. You would be able to accomplish more than before. Therefore you could play even better than you do now.

Basically it is like this. If you can do X amount of stuff in a certain amount of time. You would be able to do X+Y amount of stuff now. Since you are removing a lot of repetitive clicking. "



I think that some people didnt get the whole idea from the start, rejected it and now feel that they would rather rip their own teeth out than to change their mind.

Either way there doesnt have to be any hard feelings. It amazes me how some people get totally bent out of shape, pissed off and start throwing out insults and stuff just because someone doesnt agree with them. And that is what has totally happened here. It really shows the mentality of some people who are used to getting their way and what happens when they dont. Damn near Temper Tantrums.

Both sides of the argument have been VERY well stated. There is not much more to be said. Basically I am getting tired of repeating myself to people that are just being stubborn. Nothing to do but to wait and see what more people think.

[iron]

Sam I don't think they want to understand what you're saying - they're just trolling to try & get you to post another lengthy explanation so they can point & laugh.

There's nothing to be gained here.

[samthebutcher]

Aug 11, 2012 13:05:50 GMT 2 iron said:

Sam I don't think they want to understand what you're saying - they're just trolling to try & get you to post another lengthy explanation so they can point & laugh.

There's nothing to be gained here.

Yea Iron your right.

I have been thinking of and treating them like they are mature reasonable adults, when clearly that is not the case for some of them. I guess it is because I dont know anyone that acts like some of them have been (name calling insults ect) so it took me a while to realize.

Fortunately I couldnt care less. It is about like a 10yr old calling me a poop head. I'd probably have a little chuckle and forget it happened.

[giantkillergeneral]

iron obviously everyone here understands what sam is saying. most everyone here are very skilled and intelligent mythers. a conversation about myth with a gru member isn't exactly tickling our brains. You are talking about a guy who has pretty much done nothing but play gimble ctf for several years. we get what he is saying, it is just a stupid idea.

we have explained to him time and time again why his idea is horrible. it makes for an overpowered attack with flame arrows, and we don't want to make it faster/easier for people to aim a volley of fire arrows. Otherwise without fire arrows it is a near pointless attack that doesn't help at all as people tend to dodge with their whole formation by default anyway, and it would reduce the different angles you can create by attacking single point. He is actually the one that fails to understand and listen from people who know this game a whole lot more than he does.

no one is trolling here, we gave him an honest shot at a real conversation at the beginning. we just gave up on his stubbornness as he repeats the same nonsense over and over again while completely ignoring everything we have said. We have just decided to laugh it off instead.

[samthebutcher]

I am getting tired of going over this but it is comments like this that makes me think some people arent reading or completely understanding how it works.

GKG please read this whole thing, and explain to me how I am wrong. Tell me how my EXAMPLES wouldnt apply. Cause right now it does seem that you arent reading what I am saying and Iron is right.

This is what you said that makes me think you arent reading what I am writing.

we have explained to him time and time again why his idea is horrible. it makes for an overpowered attack with flame arrows, and we don't want to make it faster/easier for people to aim a volley of fire arrows.

I already said before that even though I think it balances out because A) Everyone can use it. B) It isnt something you would want to do every time. It would only be useful in some situations.

BUT....

beyond that. I have said that I would be willing to drop that to get more support. So there is no need to imply that I am still arguing for that. I'm not.

Otherwise without fire arrows it is a near pointless attack that doesn't help at all as people tend to dodge with their whole formation by default anyway,

You say it wouldnt help much. Other people say it would help too much. Dumb things down.

Dodging with your whole formation doesnt really matter. It is about having the option to quickly target multiple enemies more efficiently. So that you can do other things.

and it would reduce the different angles you can create by attacking single point.

You could still attack a single point the same way you always have. It wouldnt change that AT ALL.



EXAMPLES:

Here is an example I gave. I know it is long but PLEASE READ it and tell me how this wouldnt ever be useful to you. Or how it would dumb things down and make it easier for noobs. You would still do just as many clicks as fast as you always have, just more efficient use of your clicks. Speed would be JUST as important.


"Here is what I said
"For example you are fighting someone. With the current setup:

You are engaging his Bowmen with yours. You are shooting one at a time (as that is the way it works) Maybe your opponent has 3 weak Bowmen that need about 2 hits each to kill. So instead of picking them off 1 at a time. You would like to take them out at the same time. Ok with the current set up you could select 3 of your Bowmen 1 at a time and an enemy Bowmen for each of them 1 at a time. Thats 6 clicks. Now you are fast and maybe you could pull this off. You might even be able to dodge arrows with a remaining Bowmen you are so fast.

Compare that same fight with my idea added.
Your engaging his Bowmen shooting 1 at a time. You see the 3 weak Bowmen you want to take out. You select 3 of your Bowmen. Quickly drag the cursor through the 3 enemy Bowmen you want to target. Thats it your Bowmen are now attacking them. That would be so much faster. So with that extra time you could flank with a ghol. Or anything else. You now have more attack options more room for tactics because time isnt being wasted with repetitive clicking.

Your superior speed is still going to be an advantage to you. You can just focus your speed in more productive ways. Like flanking or anything else that a slower player couldnt do.

Strategically you know what you want to do, attack those 3 Bowmen and Flank with a Ghol, but your abilities are being limited by slower controls. Make the control easier and and faster and you can better meet your abilities. "

AND I SAID
"in that example I gave.
Standard way:
You have 6 clicks. Click 1 of your Bowmen - Click an Enemy Bowmen -Click 1 of your Bowmen- Click an Enemy Bowmen -Click 1 of your Bowmen-Click an Enemy Bowmen.

New way:
Compare that to selecting 3 of your Bowmen at the same time (with Presets or a standard "selection box" however). Then running your cursor across 3 enemy Bowmen. Thats it. That has got to be 4x faster. For the same result. So now that you accomplished that so much faster by cutting out a bunch of repetitive clicking. You can use you speed for better things.

It doesnt matter how fast you are. This would allow you to make moves or attacks faster by eliminating a bunch of unnecessary clicking just to do a simple task. Now you can do MORE stuff, apply more tactics. Make even more attacks at once. Your speed IS JUST as important its just used more efficiently. This will let you do even more attacks or whatever in the same amount of time. You would be able to accomplish more than before. Therefore you could play even better than you do now.

Basically it is like this. If you can do X amount of stuff in a certain amount of time. You would be able to do X+Y amount of stuff now. Since you are removing a lot of repetitive clicking. "

There IS NO DUMBING down. Nothing making it easier for noobs. It just makes things more efficient. It DOES NOT lessen the number of clicks or how fast you need to make them. It allows you to do MORE stuff with the same number of clicks and same amount of time. The top and the fastest players still have an advantage. The top players will be able to do even more in a given amount of time than they do now. It would free you up from some repetitive clicking to use those same clicks in better ways, to controlling even more units than you do now in the same time and same clicks.

If you can currently make A clicks in B time and command C units.

You would be able to make A clicks in B time and command C+D units.

How is that not better for everyone? Especially top players?